Which action is best - 2/3 or 4 lug?

[plumbs7]

I luv this sport and this forum , not to mention the company. I'm cracking up laughing reading the above !
Well enough about pink bits on guns ! 2 lugs are all I've used so far but wouldn't mind shifting to the inbred 3 lug version sometime!

[GrahamW]

ROFLMFAO

Tim,

Not sure you're ever going to get a straight answer to this one.... probably already past that.

Maybe this should be moved to Humour/Off-Topic

[KHGS]

ROFLMFAO

Tim,

Not sure you're ever going to get a straight answer to this one.... probably already past that.

Maybe this should be moved to Humour/Off-Topic

OK straight answer, there is no "best" the best will be the one you are comfortable with. It is a fact that the more lugs you have, the less primary extraction you will have. The more lugs you have the harder the bolt lift will be, which is not a good thing for any of the F Classes. My personal preference is for 3 lug actions which for me provide a good compromise on bolt lift & enough primary extraction. Primary extraction can be minimal in target rifles as this only becomes an issue when poor reloading technique is used.
Keith H.

[Steve N]

You have two eyes, two ears, two arms, two legs, and two balls.
Its just natural to have two lugs.

This could be complicated for some that might come from Tassie and may have an extra head complete with all accessories.

[Robert Chombart]

Hi All,
This may end up a Ford/Holden type argument but I'm wondering which action people prefer and why?
I have a stiller viper 2 lug action and a Barnard PC 3 lug.
They both work fine but the stiller is more shiney

I have posted on:

http://c-g-designs.blog4ever.com/en-act ... 4053-11XQt

My thoughts on the value of the 3 principles.

Hope it will help?

Sincerely
R.G.C

[AlanF]

Thanks Robert. Nearly all discussions I've seen, mainly about 2 vs 3 lugs, do not focus on the specialised requirements for single shot prone shooting, which F-Class is. And you also discuss several aspects of lug design that some us (myself included) have never considered.

[Robert Chombart]

[

[/quote]

OK straight answer, there is no "best" the best will be the one you are comfortable with. It is a fact that the more lugs you have, the less primary extraction you will have. The more lugs you have the harder the bolt lift will be, which is not a good thing for any of the F Classes. My personal preference is for 3 lug actions which for me provide a good compromise on bolt lift & enough primary extraction. Primary extraction can be minimal in target rifles as this only becomes an issue when poor reloading technique is used.
Keith H.[/quote]

Sorry to not agree.

From the design stage, a good action must be planned for a good 1,8- 2mm of primary extraction and this is to be progressive , with primary extraction ramps being with angles increasing the bolt rear movement during the last degrees of the bolt lift rotation.

The maximal effort during bolt lift is first to go over the initial inertia, then compress the FP spring , and the primary extraction occur only at end of the cycle,helped by the acceleration of the prior rotation movement.

If the initial angle is quite small, the effort to the bolt handle will be minimal to free the case . To achieve this, a radiused ramp, or the combination of a radius and a chamfer is ideal , the simple chamfer is the worst solution..

With a well conceived and realised primary extraction , the number of lugs is not a factor.

The best example of transformation of a circular movement to a linear one is the engine canshaft operating the valves . The cam lift is progressive.

R.G.C

[KHGS]

[

OK straight answer, there is no "best" the best will be the one you are comfortable with. It is a fact that the more lugs you have, the less primary extraction you will have. The more lugs you have the harder the bolt lift will be, which is not a good thing for any of the F Classes. My personal preference is for 3 lug actions which for me provide a good compromise on bolt lift & enough primary extraction. Primary extraction can be minimal in target rifles as this only becomes an issue when poor reloading technique is used.
Keith H.[/quote]

Sorry to not agree.

From the design stage, a good action must be planned for a good 1,8- 2mm of primary extraction and this is to be progressive , with primary extraction ramps being with angles increasing the bolt rear movement during the last degrees of the bolt lift rotation.

The maximal effort during bolt lift is first to go over the initial inertia, then compress the FP spring , and the primary extraction occur only at end of the cycle,helped by the acceleration of the prior rotation movement.

If the initial angle is quite small, the effort to the bolt handle will be minimal to free the case . To achieve this, a radiused ramp, or the combination of a radius and a chamfer is ideal , the simple chamfer is the worst solution..

With a well conceived and realised primary extraction , the number of lugs is not a factor.

The best example of transformation of a circular movement to a linear one is the engine canshaft operating the valves . The cam lift is progressive.

R.G.C[/quote]
R.G.C.
You are welcome to disagree, but the actual practical fact remains that "best" will be what the shooter prefers!! If you read between the lines there is NO reference to "best" design inferred with my "tongue in cheek" statement!, only my personal preference not necessarily based on "best" but "good" design! Many of you may have missed my "Australian" brand of humour in my post.
Keith.H

[PCW]

How long is a piece of string????? I am not exchanging any of my Barnards for any 2 or 4 lug action! Having said that my hunting rifles are 2 lug actions. Interesting that Ruger's new action is a 3 lug action.
Keith H.

Hello,
I have just joined this forum, the answer to How long is a piece of string? is: from the centre to the end twice (simple)

[BATattack]

I like my BAT model M 2 lug actions. They are a little heavy but they have a huge amount of primary extraction and will make light work of a stubborn case if required.

I'd rather sacrifice a little bolt throw for increased extraction reliability and don't the feel it's any disadvantage in F class.

[Razer]

I had a Mauser 98 action and it tore the rim of the case of one which was stuck hard!
Fortunately it only happened once as I never repeated the exercise which initiated such a situation.

[AlanF]

Now that F-Class has been around for a while, you can get some idea what's preferred in the way of actions particularly in the US where pretty much everything is available at a competitive price. See http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/04/u-s-f-open-team-hardware-choices/ for a list of actions used by the US F-Class team. Americans are a patriotic lot, so its a credit to Barnard to be that high on the list.

[KHGS]

How long is a piece of string????? I am not exchanging any of my Barnards for any 2 or 4 lug action! Having said that my hunting rifles are 2 lug actions. Interesting that Ruger's new action is a 3 lug action.
Keith H.

Hello,
I have just joined this forum, the answer to How long is a piece of string? is: from the centre to the end twice (simple)

Keith H.

[Tim N]

Maybe a better list of components might be from the current world champions.
Barnards could be higher up the list.

[Tim N]

I found an old equipment list from NRAA 2015 which showed:
13 - 3 lug actions barnard and bat.
7 - 2 lug actions.
Possibly our preference for 3 lug actions is both price AND availability?