New shooter F class

Dobbo · Post by **Dobbo** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:11 pm

I have just started shooting F class in WA with the club 308 omark and will be looking to get my own rifle soon. The more I read and the more people I talk to the more confused I get.
As a newby would it be better to start with a good scope and a cheap rifle mayby an omark and if required get a new barrel or should I start with a new rifle with a sub MOA.
I am shooting reasonably well the the club gear and would eventually like to get competitive.
Budget is around 2-2.5k.
All suggestions welcome.
Thanks

actionclear · Post by **actionclear** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:50 am

Hi Dobbo,

Firstly, welcome to rifle shooting. I am also in WA, which club have you joined?

Are you shooting F OPen, F Std, or F/TR?

You are correct, there is so much advice out there, everything becomes very confusing.

I will recommend buying the best glass you can afford, as this will gain you points. I went through 3 scopes before I ended up with my nightforce, simply because the NF was out of my budget when I first started. Upgrading does become expensive. LOL

As for which rifle, this is a very personal choice. Have you been able to get behind other club members rifles?

bartman007 · Post by **bartman007** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:41 pm

Hello Dobbo,

Once you know which discipline you are interested in, then have a look at:
usedguns.com.au There are a number of great buys in the Tactical area.

Of course we can all give you further advice once we know which discipline is of interest.

The scope is a VERY important area to focus on, which if you are lucky you may be able to pick up for around $1000 second hand, or $1500 new.

That leaves around $1000 to $1500 for a reasonable rifle.

Getting a good action that you can re-barrel some time down the track is probably the way to go. After all, you need to learn a few things first, so why burn out a new barrel.

Regards,

Barman007

Gadget · Post by **Gadget** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:25 pm

Hi Dobbo,
I think your scope choice is crucial, find the best you can afford at the time, then re think it, :roll:

and just go and bye " the best."
You will go through every thing else in time ( barrels ,stocks ,caliber's ) but you will allways keep a good scope.
You have a very health budget, so take you time and do it right the first time.

Gadget

Quinny · Post by **Quinny** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:58 pm

I would be having a look online at a good second hand Leupold VX3 6.5-20x50, 8.5-25x50 or Sightron SIII 6-24x50 scope. You should be able to pick one up for less than $1000. With the good Aussie dollar at the moment, it is also worthwhile to look at buying from the US.

$1500 will get you a decent rifle to start with - Tikka T3 Varmint, Savage 10FP, Savage VLP or Remington 700 Police.

TOM · Post by **TOM** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:01 pm

Depending on how serious you are thinking of getting about this sport, you want to get yourself a dedicated target rifle, steer clear of the "Tactical" stuff, despite what people will tell you it's not built for the purpose you intend to use it for, Short barrels and stocks that are unsuitable is what you will get from a tactical set up. Within your budget you will be able to get youself a good scope, buy the best you can afford, you will also get a reasonable Omark with a suitable stock for F class. It's the bottom end of the scale as far as rifles are concerned but it will do the job untill you can/want to up grade.

macguru · Post by **macguru** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:08 pm

Well now, as far as scopes go you can get a Sightron 8-32 fine crosshair for $850 from the good ole USA, about 2/3 what it costs here. Now it does not feel quite as rugged as the Leupold or Nightforce as far as the control knobs go, but the optics are excellent and i have heard people with the latter brands sending them back with problems. However, I have had a Leupold for 2 years & 5000 rounds on 2 rifles no problems. Just a shame its not a 8-32 , but only an 8-25 !! The new Sightron worked great in testing last week, and the extra magnification was very welcome to my eyes

As for rifles, its pretty hard to get a factory rifle that is competitive. The one I have is a Savage 223 LRPV 1:7, a joy to shoot, but its a 223 and if you are only gonna have one rifle it HAS to be a 308 ! which will work best for F Standard at all ranges & wind, for the non handloader esp. The savage ftr 308 may be an answer under $2000, with its heavy 30" barrel. If you are seduced by the appearance of 'tactical' 308s, the ones i would recommend - the Accuracy International and Sako TRG are WELL outside your budget. They have 26" barrels which is probably the minimum anyone would recommend. The Tikka 308 Varmint may be OK, it looks good on paper but i have not seen anyone using one. It has the spec, though a 24" barrel. The remington varmint i saw was crap until the owner had it rebarrelled with a 26" mack truck axle, now it shoots great. I have not tried the savage varmint 308s but the twist on them is 1:10 which seems a tad fast for 155gr bullets.

If you buy second hand, you have to ask, if the gun is a shooter, then why are they selling it? You dont want to inherit someone's failed project gun, do you ? Of course if they are leaving the sport you may be getting a genuine bargain, who knows? Any way, try to make friends with a gunsmith as soon as you can

good luck!
andrew

Dobbo · Post by **Dobbo** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:13 pm

Thanks to all for the replies.
I will buy the best optics I can I enjoy the longer distances so assume a x20-25 is the way to go?
I guess that would put me in F open/OC.
What reticle is better for target over the longer distances, I tend to be a knob twiddler as opposed to holding off (exept for wind).
If I get an older rifle and get it rebarrelled should I look at 30 inch?
I will try to get hold of some of the other club members guns to have a go at different triggers and set ups.
Thanks again for the advice.

Quinny · Post by **Quinny** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:40 am

macguru wrote:As for rifles, its pretty hard to get a factory rifle that is competitive. The one I have is a Savage 223 LRPV 1:7, a joy to shoot, but its a 223 and if you are only gonna have one rifle it HAS to be a 308 ! which will work best for F Standard at all ranges & wind, for the non handloader esp. The savage ftr 308 may be an answer under $2000, with its heavy 30" barrel. If you are seduced by the appearance of 'tactical' 308s, the ones i would recommend - the Accuracy International and Sako TRG are WELL outside your budget. They have 26" barrels which is probably the minimum anyone would recommend. The Tikka 308 Varmint may be OK, it looks good on paper but i have not seen anyone using one. It has the spec, though a 24" barrel. The remington varmint i saw was crap until the owner had it rebarrelled with a 26" mack truck axle, now it shoots great. I have not tried the savage varmint 308s but the twist on them is 1:10 which seems a tad fast for 155gr bullets.

I had a Tikka Varmint in .308, and it was a great shooter for a factory rifle. I would shoot .5" at 100m all day, and often much smaller if I got it right. I sold the Tikka to buy a Savage F/TR, and I can tell you that the Savage target rifle series are almost impossible to get hold of at the moment. I called at least 6 places and got told the same thing - "none in the country at the moment and there isn't likely to be anymore until Xmas if you're lucky". I was extremely lucky that I got a tip that a shop had a cancelled order for one, so I snapped it up.

The Rem 700 Police seems to be a popular choice with its 26" barrel, and 1:12" twist for the 155gr bullets. Also, unlike most Remingtons it has the free floating barrel and a decent stock. With the price reduction on Remingtons lately, you can pick them up new for around $1500 now.

Hangfire · Post by **Hangfire** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:02 am

"What reticle is better for target over the longer distances, I tend to be a knob twiddler as opposed to holding off (exept for wind)."

If you wind on then look at Nightforce NP-2DD reticle.

RDavies · Post by **RDavies** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:01 am

I think the reticles which are most popular are the ones which arent too "busy". In the tactical scene, it seems chic to have as many lines, dots and circles as you can fit into a reticle, but for F class simple is usualy most common. As Hangfire said, something like the Nightforce NP-2DD reticle is nice and simple. Other options as mentioned are the Sightons, I like mine (a 10-50x).
Some people (myself included) have built up dual purpose rifles to shoot use for hunting and target and what you end up with is a rifle which is too heavy and high power scope for the bush, but not quite right for target either.
My usual recommendation to new shooters on a budget have been to buy a used F class rifle, shoot the guts out of the barrel while you learn what its all about, and decide on what caliber you want, then rebarrel at a later date. At least this way, you dont have to worry about bases, rings, barrels, reamers, trigger etc, just rock up and shoot.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:52 pm

The other NF reticle you might look at is the NPR2, that just has has marks of 5moa for windage and 2moa for elevation. It is not too busy and nice and clear. I have this on my NF BR 8-32x56 that I use for Fclass standard, the other thing is that the turrets/knobs are 1/8moa, which takes a little time to get used to, I had been previously shooting with a central sight that was in 1/3rds. At this point in time, I am using an Omark that I was previously using for TR, with a Maddco barrel, Davies single stage trigger and a Davies bipod. Total cost at this time $1800 for scope and mounts, 150 for 20moa picatinny rail, $180 for Davies bipod and $60 for a rear bag.

I have also been trialling a Lynx 20x42 Mildot scope on the same rifle, looks very promising, given the groups that I shot the other night, with 1/4 moa turrets.

At some stage in the future, depending on Malabar, and an alternate venue, I will upgrade to a Remington or an Accuracy International AE II, but this is what I use at the moment, not a bad start

macguru · Post by **macguru** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:25 pm

Quinny wrote:I had a Tikka Varmint in .308, and it was a great shooter for a factory rifle. I would shoot .5" at 100m all day, and often much smaller if I got it right. I sold the Tikka to buy a Savage F/TR, ...

If the Tikka was so good why did you sell it ? Did the accuracy suffer at longer ranges ? was it the rifle. 1/3 moa is pretty much as good as it gets so 1/2 moa is not far off the money imho you may not necessarily get better with the factory savage, its partly the luck of the draw.

cheers andrew

Dobbo · Post by **Dobbo** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:47 pm

Thanks for the advice all.
I am looking for the scope now and may have found an omark. Doesnt have sights but thats easily fixed.
Sounds like the barrel may have had a lot of use and may need rebarreling. any advise on barrel lenght, make?
I have heard new barrels are around the $600 mark is there anything else I should get cheched out on the used rifle prior to buying?
Thanks,

Quinny · Post by **Quinny** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:49 pm

macguru wrote:
Quinny wrote:I had a Tikka Varmint in .308, and it was a great shooter for a factory rifle. I would shoot .5" at 100m all day, and often much smaller if I got it right. I sold the Tikka to buy a Savage F/TR, ...

If the Tikka was so good why did you sell it ? Did the accuracy suffer at longer ranges ? was it the rifle. 1/3 moa is pretty much as good as it gets so 1/2 moa is not far off the money imho you may not necessarily get better with the factory savage, its partly the luck of the draw.

cheers andrew

I had put over 1000 rounds through it and decided that it was time for something new, and decided to go for something more 'target' focussed. I didn't need to sell it, it was a great rifle, and I would highly recommend one to anyone shopping in the ~$1500 price range, it wsa just one of those "time for a new toy" decisions.

I was reading about the Savage F/TR and the amazing results people are getting from them (one example - a magazine in the US got one to test and shot 0.88" 5 shot group at 500yds with factory ammo) and decided that it looked like a good unit for the price, so I bought one.