F/TR vs FO

[LEE .308]

Hiyas,
What is the general consensus around Australian clubs pertaining to F/TR.
I am about to build a new rifle and wish to know which way I should spend the hard earned.
FO in Tas Is virtually non existent and I am trying to quietly go about changing this to at least getting enough FO shooters in the state so that clubs holding prize meets will start having a division for FO as well as FS and TR. Maybe just maybe even Get enough FO shooters to put a team together to travel overseas and shoot matches in VIC, NSW and other states of Australia. Given that FS is growing at a good rate here now this may not be just a pipe dream however the arrival of F/TR has cast a cloud and caused a few people who were thinking of possibly moving from FS to FO as a standard to rethink before outlaying the expense of changing equipment to accommodate the different discipline.
Is F/TR likely to become mainstream throughout Aust. at the expense of FO or will it be a case of only those who can afford to go further afield, eg the US and other places that shoot F/TR.
Ideally there would be enough shooters to cover all three disciplines of F-Class, But in Tassie this just simply isn't the case, unfortunately it seems to be one or the other and the winner being what ever remains the more popular over there as ppl here simply wont travel if it is to go all that way to have a practice shoot because the the club holding the meet decides there isn't enough shooters in a given class, to run a division for that class during the meet.
I guess what I'm asking is am I banging my head against a wall trying to get a class going in Tas when it is going to be a dying class on mainland Aust.
I would just like to get the opinion of ppl who are shooting FO over there to see what the general opinion is of F/TR and how big you guys think it will become.
Thank you.

[IanP]

Lee, I think changing over from F-Std to F T/R is a few years away yet. When and if it does take hold in Oz there will be a changeover period of some years where both types could shoot side by side.

Your best bet is to shoot FS off a front rest using a stock that could accommodate an FO barrel (1.25") to future proof your purchase. Most FS standard shooters at my club use heavy palma taper barrels and the rifles meet the FS weight requirements with ease. The stock could also easily be adapted to F T/R for use with a bipod by fitting a rail or sling adapter mount.

What I'm saying is I'd recommend shooting FS in Tassie with equipment that could shoot FO by simply screwing in a new barrel. The action you buy should have an adjustable trigger so as to be able to set 1 kg for FS and something much lighter for FO. There is plenty of good equipment to choose from so do some research before parting with your money.

IanP

[LEE .308]

Thanks for the reply Ian,
After looking around and doing lots of reading and asking people who shoot FO the plan was to build a new rifle chambered with a .284 Shehan as well as get a few ppl down here who have said they may be interested to shoot FO. And to hopefully get a small team that could maybe represent Tassie at inter state comps, as is the case with the Match Rifle. I just wasn't sure if the FO numbers were going to be affected by the push for F/TR and was trying to get some sort of idea where FO was heading as a Class in Australia.
After reading your post I am of the understanding that if any class numbers are affected by the growing F/TR class it will be those of FS and not FO so it might be worth while trying to continue with the grand plan.
I already have a rifle I use for FS and a long throated rifle ( both .308) I use for Match rifle so these will be always on hand when and if F/TR dose take off.
Cheers

[RDavies]

The way I see it, FO, will keep slowly increasing in numbers, not as big as F std, but in most areas is slowly growing.
I dont see F/TR as having any adverse effects on F/std numbers, as F/std is alway growing, but a few pioneering F/TR shooters will build up overall numbers.
I hope you do decide to build a 284, it would be a good cartridge for tassie with its windy ranges.
As has been mentioned, an F/TR or F Open rifle, is only a barrel change away from being a F std rifle.
As for F/TR, I think if you are just starting out, I wouldnt be building an F/TR rifle as the numbers arent out there yet, your matchrifle would be just the ticket. I will be building an F/std rifle which will comply with F/TR, and will be shooting in F/TR spec in some F/Open comps, but I wouldnt build an F/TR spec only rifle in Australia just yet.
Just screw a 284 barrel in for now.

[LEE .308]

Good to hear your suggestion as it goes with what I had in in mind. I am currently waiting for my g/smith to get back to me with prices on another Savage action this time barrelled with a 32' 1 in 9 Krieger in a 284. Still working how I want the stock. It will probably be in the style of a Tracker stock, I just have to find the right piece of wood.

[John T]

Hello Lee.

This is my first visit to your topic so I don't know how old it is.

You have some great timber for rifle stocks in Tasmania. Black hearted sassafras and blackwood are just two.

Instead of the Savage, you might consider a Remmington 700 (maybe sleeved) or a Barnard and buy a Jewel trigger.

If your chamber is to be the 284 Shehan there is no need for a long (and whippy) barrel. Go for a shorter, thick (and stiffer) barrel, say, 28", no taper, fluted.

Open shooters tend to be a fairly determined lot. I do not see that F/TR will impact adversely on Open.

Regards,
John T.
23-06-2011

[LEE .308]

Hiya John,
the Shehane would of been nice, interesting to read your view on the barrel length I was still toying with the idea of having it fluted, but getting hold of a reamer and the work you have to do have to do with cases, I ended up opting for a straight 284.win I figured my time is better off spent shooting it, rather than sitting in the humpy doing brass work. My shooting isn't that good that I can go to those extremes just yet. Maybe when I get a bit better Ill look at the Shehane again.
The reason I went with a Savage action is because I already use one for F/st and match rifle shooting. So given that I will end up with two actions, one long and one short with the ease of the barrel locking nut for changing barrels, I should be able to cover any discipline of shooting anyone wishes to throw out there, just with the change of a barrel. (Future Proofing as Ian put it) Oh! and the cost. Also using the accu trigger sits quite well. I have grown to like and trust them.
I'm actually looking around for a piece of tiger myrtle/fiddle back for the stock. It looks fantastic when done right. A good friend of mine is a very good craftsman and makes excellent rifle stocks. I will have to find some sort of bribery to get him interested.
Cheers

[John T]

Lee.

I would LOVE it if you would connect me to your source of t.m./f.b.

I am grossly jealous!

[AlanF]

...I am currently waiting for my g/smith to get back to me with prices on another Savage action this time barrelled with a 32' 1 in 9 Krieger in a 284. Still working how I want the stock...

Lee,

Sounds like you haven't ordered the barrel yet. I'd recommend an 8.5 twist if you're expecting to run 180gn projectiles. Otherwise when you come up against all the Lows (temp, altitude, velocity) the 180s may not be stable in flight.

Alan

[LEE .308]

Its fortunate that I have a few friends still working in the logging industry as well as a few that work in small speciality timber mills.It's amazing the sorts of off cuts ya can get hold of for a few cartons of Crownies.

[LEE .308]

No I haven't ordered it yet. And thanks for the info Alan. 1:8 had also crossed my mind. On the Berger site it says 1:9 for 180's or faster. So I just went with that. Given you are no doubt speaking from experience the decision will be easy. 1:8.5 it is.

[AlanF]

No I haven't ordered it yet. And thanks for the info Alan. 1:8 had also crossed my mind. On the Berger site it says 1:9 for 180's or faster. So I just went with that. Given you are no doubt speaking from experience the decision will be easy. 1:8.5 it is.

I've read a few opinions around the web, including Berger ballistician Bryan Litz, and putting it all together, 8.5 seems to be the way to go unless you're sure your velocites will always be up there i.e. 2850+fps. With the standard 284, many shooters seem to settle for sub 2850 with the 180s.

[RDavies]

JohnT, you cant surely be jealous of someone elses stock, yours is one of the best looking rifles Ive seen.
I 2nd the 8.5 twist, especialy since you will often be shooting in cooler,more dense air. A few makers are coming out with bullets in the 190gn range, so, once again, future proofing.

[LEE .308]

Any idea why that is? Anything to do with barrel length or pressure.
My thoughts were to use the new Berger Hybrids in 168g and then when the 180g come out later down the track start using them. Re17, 2213c or 2209 were going to be the choice of powders as they are the easiest to obtain for me. I'm hoping a 32' barrel with a slow powder will get me up around 2900fps with the 180's.

[RAVEN]

Hi Lee
1:8.5 good choice it will shoot the 168 as well sometimes even better hey Rod
my original .284W maxed out at 3000fps with 180's node was around 2880fps
I had a 1:9 maxed out at 2850 liked to shoot 180's at 2700fps you just have to work out where it likes to shoot.
You will enjoy the 284W
good luck
RB