http://www.boretech.com/products/carbonremover.shtml
The boretech website does not specify a "Nylon" brush for the carbon cuter.
Bronze brushes and Black Residue
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Howard
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: North Queensland
The comments are all interesting.
I attacked the barrel that initiated my first opening of this topic, which is a 6mm Trueflyte in 6mm BRX.
This barrel has been erratic for some time, and no doubt die to my illadvised cleaning regime, I suspected it to be severely powder fouled.
Welll......
I bronze brushed it with Hoppes and Nulon till I was blue in the face! Eventually, the bronze brush wore out.
At this point, I accidently pulled it back a couple of times before fully emerging from the muzzle, and, as there was no indication of "catching" or "extra resistance" I did a "no-no" and scrubbed the thing back and forth, inside the bore, from the chamber forward for a foot or so.
I used Hoppes with the brush.
The patches came out black.
I twigged, and after scrubbing, I used a metho wet patch, to wash the stuff out, and caught it on clear plastic. Then I had a look through my $200 oriental microscope, and found some substance floating around, and clumping together.
I thought, "OK, Carbon, or plastic from the bore guide."
I did a couple of scrubs without the bore guide. The stuff came out the same. So, not plastic.
It's not metal, as it floats around in the pool. There is evidence of a few bits of bronze brush, and they sink to the bottom of the pool.
(I remark here that, some fellows worry about bronze bristles breaking off. Worry no more! They sure as heck do, no matter whicheverway you scrub! Just take the effort and time to ensure their removal afterwards.)
What else can it be but Carbon? Some result from some reaction? Hoppes reacting with bronze, steel, stainless, plastic?
I don't think so.
Anyway, all has come to a temporay halt, due to being temporarily bronze brushless, until I can buy some more.
Here are two pics takien at about 40x throuhg a microscope, and one of a pool of metho with the clusers in it.
None of the pics will win any awards for clarity or technical excellence!
(That's assuming they are visible - I'm not too sure of the procedure.)
Howard.
[img]
http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs22 ... 0e2287.jpg
http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs22 ... 62254e.jpg
http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs22 ... 050d87.jpg
[/img]
I attacked the barrel that initiated my first opening of this topic, which is a 6mm Trueflyte in 6mm BRX.
This barrel has been erratic for some time, and no doubt die to my illadvised cleaning regime, I suspected it to be severely powder fouled.
Welll......
I bronze brushed it with Hoppes and Nulon till I was blue in the face! Eventually, the bronze brush wore out.
At this point, I accidently pulled it back a couple of times before fully emerging from the muzzle, and, as there was no indication of "catching" or "extra resistance" I did a "no-no" and scrubbed the thing back and forth, inside the bore, from the chamber forward for a foot or so.
I used Hoppes with the brush.
The patches came out black.
I twigged, and after scrubbing, I used a metho wet patch, to wash the stuff out, and caught it on clear plastic. Then I had a look through my $200 oriental microscope, and found some substance floating around, and clumping together.
I thought, "OK, Carbon, or plastic from the bore guide."
I did a couple of scrubs without the bore guide. The stuff came out the same. So, not plastic.
It's not metal, as it floats around in the pool. There is evidence of a few bits of bronze brush, and they sink to the bottom of the pool.
(I remark here that, some fellows worry about bronze bristles breaking off. Worry no more! They sure as heck do, no matter whicheverway you scrub! Just take the effort and time to ensure their removal afterwards.)
What else can it be but Carbon? Some result from some reaction? Hoppes reacting with bronze, steel, stainless, plastic?
I don't think so.
Anyway, all has come to a temporay halt, due to being temporarily bronze brushless, until I can buy some more.
Here are two pics takien at about 40x throuhg a microscope, and one of a pool of metho with the clusers in it.
None of the pics will win any awards for clarity or technical excellence!
(That's assuming they are visible - I'm not too sure of the procedure.)
Howard.
[img]
http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs22 ... 0e2287.jpg
http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs22 ... 62254e.jpg
http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs22 ... 050d87.jpg
[/img]
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Howard
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: North Queensland
Another attempt to show the microscope photos in my previous poseted reply
Howard
[URL=http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs2207/media/HJS/Carbon-Microscope40x2_zpsb10e2287.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah79/hjs2207/HJS/Carbon-Microscope40x2_zpsb10e2287.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs2207/media/HJS/Carbon-Microscope40x1_zps6062254e.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah79/hjs2207/HJS/Carbon-Microscope40x1_zps6062254e.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs2207/media/HJS/Carbon-poolofMethoandHoppes_zpsba050d87.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah79/hjs2207/HJS/Carbon-poolofMethoandHoppes_zpsba050d87.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Howard
[URL=http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs2207/media/HJS/Carbon-Microscope40x2_zpsb10e2287.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah79/hjs2207/HJS/Carbon-Microscope40x2_zpsb10e2287.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs2207/media/HJS/Carbon-Microscope40x1_zps6062254e.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah79/hjs2207/HJS/Carbon-Microscope40x1_zps6062254e.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/hjs2207/media/HJS/Carbon-poolofMethoandHoppes_zpsba050d87.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah79/hjs2207/HJS/Carbon-poolofMethoandHoppes_zpsba050d87.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
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Josh Cox
- Posts: 563
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:00 pm
- Location: Cairns QLD
- Has thanked: 17 times
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Mixed up in a whole bunch of naked photos Howard sent me were these:
Howard,
when you click on the photo on photobucket, on the right hand side there is a "links to share photo" area, left click in the box to the right on the "IMG" label, which will copy the link, then just paste straight into a post, as I've done above.
Keep sending those naked photos, would you have a gladiator costume ?
Howard,
when you click on the photo on photobucket, on the right hand side there is a "links to share photo" area, left click in the box to the right on the "IMG" label, which will copy the link, then just paste straight into a post, as I've done above.
Keep sending those naked photos, would you have a gladiator costume ?
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Josh Cox
- Posts: 563
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:00 pm
- Location: Cairns QLD
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 55 times
For the last month I have been struggling with erratic shots. The shots looked and felt good.
It happened at the Cairns OPM, day one the rifle was shooting awesome, day two I was lucky to hit black paper.
My cleaning regime had changed on two fronts:
1) for a few months I stopped using bronze brushes and Hoppes, big mistake,
2) shooting for several days without cleaning.
Just this week I was at wits ends after shooting a cracking 41.1 at 300m.
Phil Mastin kindly offered to have a sticky beak down my barrel and it was quite badly ceramic fouled.
Trueflite, 11:1 with around a 1,000 rounds through it, it had been shooting exceptionally well ( way better than me ).
The barrel had been feeling a little rough when pushing a patch down it, for about the last month.
Went home, JB'd and bronze brushed with Hoppes, removed quite a lot of carbon, it was visible on my patches, little black crispy bits of carbon.
Last night, whilst quite skeptical, I tried Keith Hills hot water suggestion followed by Bronze brush and Hoppes,,,,,, I wish I had started with the hot water, the barrel was F'%^&ing hot and the carbon came out much easier.
Shot the rifle today, first two shots were furry, the rest grouped nicely, recovering a barrel I was about to throw in the bin, thanks Phil and Keith.
It happened at the Cairns OPM, day one the rifle was shooting awesome, day two I was lucky to hit black paper.
My cleaning regime had changed on two fronts:
1) for a few months I stopped using bronze brushes and Hoppes, big mistake,
2) shooting for several days without cleaning.
Just this week I was at wits ends after shooting a cracking 41.1 at 300m.
Phil Mastin kindly offered to have a sticky beak down my barrel and it was quite badly ceramic fouled.
Trueflite, 11:1 with around a 1,000 rounds through it, it had been shooting exceptionally well ( way better than me ).
The barrel had been feeling a little rough when pushing a patch down it, for about the last month.
Went home, JB'd and bronze brushed with Hoppes, removed quite a lot of carbon, it was visible on my patches, little black crispy bits of carbon.
Last night, whilst quite skeptical, I tried Keith Hills hot water suggestion followed by Bronze brush and Hoppes,,,,,, I wish I had started with the hot water, the barrel was F'%^&ing hot and the carbon came out much easier.
Shot the rifle today, first two shots were furry, the rest grouped nicely, recovering a barrel I was about to throw in the bin, thanks Phil and Keith.
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KHGS
- Posts: 950
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:46 am
- Location: Cowra NSW
- Has thanked: 776 times
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johnk wrote:Josh Cox wrote:Last night, whilst quite skeptical, I tried Keith Hills hot water suggestion followed by Bronze brush and Hoppes,,,,,, I wish I had started with the hot water, the barrel was F'%^&ing hot and the carbon came out much easier.
People of Keith's generation learned to do it the easy way.
What are you trying to say John?? That I am am old bugger!!!
Keith H.
but i think some times too much is taken out of some barrels 
the schultz was one 
Chop-
Josh Cox
- Posts: 563
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:00 pm
- Location: Cairns QLD
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 55 times
Have tested the theory that the bronze brush with hoppes has the potential of making black crud appear on a patch .
I have a piece of old barrel that I use For measuring ogives on projectiles, I cleaned my bronze brush and piece of barrel, applied hoppes and rubbed the bronze brush on it for about two minutes, far longer than I would scrub the inside of a dirty barrel.
Took a clean patch and wiped down the piece of barrel and the patch was clean, spotless infact.
So myth busted, if there is black crap on the patch there is black crap in the barrel.
I have a piece of old barrel that I use For measuring ogives on projectiles, I cleaned my bronze brush and piece of barrel, applied hoppes and rubbed the bronze brush on it for about two minutes, far longer than I would scrub the inside of a dirty barrel.
Took a clean patch and wiped down the piece of barrel and the patch was clean, spotless infact.
So myth busted, if there is black crap on the patch there is black crap in the barrel.
Last edited by Josh Cox on Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Howard
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: North Queensland
Goodoh!
I accept Josh's experiment. What he says gels with the microscope pictures that he posted on my behalf.
However, I do have some reservations about bronze brushes - or rather the overuse of same.
The 6mm barrel I started the thread about had an RGO (Real Going Over) with the bronze brush and Hoppes, Nulon, Bortech Carbon remover, hot water (several times) and so on (No Sweets)
I'm of the opinion that this barrel is now defunct. Parted the planet. No good. Buggered.
It won't shoot. It will hold elevation admirably for a few shots, then wanders.
It coppers up terribly! (Something it did not do before it's treatment)
Admittedly, this barrel well may well be "just worn out", but it acheived this status within a few rounds, intermixed with bronze brush scrubbing.
Discussion with people at the Cairns CDIRA Shoot revealed that some did not like bronze brushes, prefering JB paste to remove pesky carbon deposits.
My theory with JB Paste on a patch is that the patch may not get right into the corner of the Lands/Groove junction. But I'm open to discreditation on that one.
Where to from here? Dunno, other than to perhaps clean more often with nylon brushes and good chemicals, with a touch-up with a bronze brush, just to give it a fright.
There is no doubt in my mind that the complete and total removel of baked on carbon is indeed, a very difficult, and ratehr haphazard operation, with no crystal clear result.
Howard
I accept Josh's experiment. What he says gels with the microscope pictures that he posted on my behalf.
However, I do have some reservations about bronze brushes - or rather the overuse of same.
The 6mm barrel I started the thread about had an RGO (Real Going Over) with the bronze brush and Hoppes, Nulon, Bortech Carbon remover, hot water (several times) and so on (No Sweets)
I'm of the opinion that this barrel is now defunct. Parted the planet. No good. Buggered.
It won't shoot. It will hold elevation admirably for a few shots, then wanders.
It coppers up terribly! (Something it did not do before it's treatment)
Admittedly, this barrel well may well be "just worn out", but it acheived this status within a few rounds, intermixed with bronze brush scrubbing.
Discussion with people at the Cairns CDIRA Shoot revealed that some did not like bronze brushes, prefering JB paste to remove pesky carbon deposits.
My theory with JB Paste on a patch is that the patch may not get right into the corner of the Lands/Groove junction. But I'm open to discreditation on that one.
Where to from here? Dunno, other than to perhaps clean more often with nylon brushes and good chemicals, with a touch-up with a bronze brush, just to give it a fright.
There is no doubt in my mind that the complete and total removel of baked on carbon is indeed, a very difficult, and ratehr haphazard operation, with no crystal clear result.
Howard
Howard
Over this side of the island alot of people employ stiff nylon brushes and JB/Iosso. It does get into the corners of the rifling. How much is needed to get into the corners and clean all the carbon out? Only a borescope will tell you. Still see bronze brushes as being a good method of keeping carbon at bay until you get the opportunity to clean back to steel.
Over this side of the island alot of people employ stiff nylon brushes and JB/Iosso. It does get into the corners of the rifling. How much is needed to get into the corners and clean all the carbon out? Only a borescope will tell you. Still see bronze brushes as being a good method of keeping carbon at bay until you get the opportunity to clean back to steel.
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