Moly bullets and poweder fouling

[Howard]

Hi All,
Having had troubles with fouling in Barrels, have decided to remove any fouling by replacing the barrel. Hopefully, any fouling will depart with the old barrel!
Regarding Moly coated bullets.
I read some blokes use it for added velocity, and so on.
My qustion is does anyone have an opinion on it's worth as a powder fouling reducer, or preferably eliminater. especially as regards that darn super hard "ceramic" fouling.
Copper fouling is easy to remove. There's a jillion chemicals out there to dissolve copper, but not so many (if really any) successful powder dissolvers.
So, if I go to the trouble to moly coat, will that reduce my "ceramic" powder fouling?
Yes, I know another solution is to avoid allowing the fouling to get that far, but I seem to have heaps of trouble doing that, no matter how many gallons of Hoppes et al, and brushes that I use. Maybe I'm just plain Bad Luck!
I've heard or read where some bloke don't clean "hardly ever" with moly bullets. Mebbe so, but I don't care if I have to clean, as long as it works.
I must admit I've shied away from the moly idea, because it's just another variable to contend with, but I'm open to ideas.
Just to reiterate, I'm not trying to get away from cleaning, as such, just to get away from "ceramic" powder fouling.
In my humble opinion, and due to recent experiences, I'm not to sure you can really remove "ceramic" fouling, and get back to "new" without making some damage that is difficult if not impossible to actually see.
Regards to all, and a happy and successful new year. (My old man used to say, "a prosperous new year, and we'll buy some happiness.")
Howard.

[Josh Cox]

Hi Howard,

I have been using moly bullets for about six months and, as you know, have previously had fouling issues.

Firstly I replaced the barrel I was having fouling issues with ( which had 6-700 rounds through it ).

Gone back to tried and proven methods of cleaning, Hoppes and bronze brush, lots of soaking.

Presently trialling Forrest Milfoam.

The new barrel has had about 250 rounds through it, so probably too soon to call it, but I have pretty much zero copper coming out of the barrel, occasionally after cleaning I run a couple of eliminator patches down the barrel to confirm the bore is actually clean. Every single bullet through this barrel has been moly'd.

Very happy with what I am seeing from this barrel.

Mike Kerlin showed me how to moly, it is very very easy, put clean bullets in a plastic jar with a pinch of moly, fifteen minutes in the tumbler in the jar ( empty all the media out of the tumbler ), the plastic jar just rattles around and does an awesome job.

I was told the velocity will usually drop with the use of moly, I have been told some where in the ball park of 0.5 of a grain extra will be needed.

My chrono testing does not agree with this theory, using 45 of 2206, unmoly'd gives an avg velocity of 2996, with moly'd 2986, a metric bees dick in difference.

All done and told, I am satisfied it was mostly the barrel, but I'll know for sure by mid this year.

After cleaning and before firing, I have mixed up a little bottle of moly and metho, I run a moly / metho rag down the barrel to prep it.

[Howard]

Gidday Josh,
Yeah, we've had our fouling problems!
So, this tumbling business.
Put the slugs in a plastic jar, put said jar in an empty tumbler (vibrating bowl type?)
The jar doesn't just sit there on it's bum, sliding about?
Anyway, I'll try it.
I was thinking of using little 'clip on lid' plastic containers, and putting them in with the polishing media.
Ta
H

[Josh Cox]

I use the clear plastic peanut butter jars with the yellow lid, I think they are a Kraft product, they rattle around nicely.

[Razer]

You need to remove the makers lubricant from projectiles or the moly will not adhere.
I use Shellite in a plastic screw top container (Kraft 780 gram peanut butter jars are good)and give them a good swish around then, place on paper towel to dry. Make sure you do this 'well prior' to coating as it gives time for the Shellite to evaporate from the hollow point.
I put my projectiles in 400gram(volume) glass jam/pickle jars with the moly(not too much) plus ball bearings(helps coat the projectiles by impacting).
The jars should be just the right diameter to fit in the tumbler with enough clearance to allow them to rotate
I use two jars and, to be sure the lids do not come off I use electrical tape around them.
I leave the media in the tumbler and placed the jars on opposite sides. This way the jars actually rotate/roll in the tumbler's media (bit like a cement mixer) which ensures a very evenly coated projectile (and without any damage to the tips).
Turn on the tumbler and leave it for about 3 hours depending on just how full the jars are(do not over fill).
To get the ball bearings separated from the projectiles I tip the lot into a plastic jar (as above)with several holes in the lid bigger than the bearings and just invert it and move it around until all bearings are out.
Tip projectiles onto a towel and polish them be by rolling them along the towelling by lifting one end then the other(the legs of panty hose are excellent if you know where to get some).

I use 3/16 inch diameter bearings and bought them from a bearing supplier at the per kilo rate(if sold by count they are prohibitive in cost). .

If done properly you can handle the projectile without any colour coming off on your fingers though I try to avoid any more handling than is absolutely necessary.
The finished product should have a shining finish with NO signs of excess moly, neither should it rub off easily.
When finished I store the coated projectiles in an air tight container (yep, a peanut butter one)
Edit; I see peanut jars are popular.

[Pete]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index. ... =3857331.0

I've only tried the above method, I'm impressed with the results though....................

[BATattack]

Has anyone played with HBN? Apparently it's supposed to be as good as moly but doesn't attract moisture.

I personally don't coat target bullets but I was thinking about giving it a go with a .17 project.

[Howard]

Hi All,
The article on wet moly application was interestin.
Seems the blokes who do it have a bit of a rave over it. Worth a try.
Where does one buy Moly? I assume it's molybdenum disulphide but I may be thinking of something else.
(We used to use grease with it in, and called it Molly-b-denim. It was easier to say than molibdenmum or whatever.)
Howard.

[AlanF]

Has anyone played with HBN? Apparently it's supposed to be as good as moly but doesn't attract moisture.

I personally don't coat target bullets but I was thinking about giving it a go with a .17 project.

Adam,

I tried HBN but went back to moly when I found it didn't reduce velocities as much as moly, so presumably is not as slippery. That coupled with the fact that I already have a good system in place for molying, and haven't noticed problems with moisture.

Alan

[RDavies]

Some shops sell the moly powder in small tubs, enough to last a life time for about $30 I think.

I now only use the wet moly method, much much better than the dry method, the bullets just look so nice and shiny, not black and powdery. To wet coat the pills, don't put too much water in there, just enough to keep them a bit wet, not enough to cover the bullets.

I think the moly reduces the hard ceramic coating but doesn't stop it. I still clean my moly barrels down to metal every 2-300 shots. I do find that once I have the powder fouling and moly build up out of the bore, there is some carbon still in the first few inches, but MAYBE not as much as the bare bullets. ( I have only used moly in 5-6 barrels, so nothing conclusive) Either way, I still clean every 2-300 shots to prevent any build up.

Some of my barrels love HBN, some don't. I found with some barrels, the ES/SD jumped up with HBN, these were all canted land barrels, no idea why. The barrels which came alive with HBN were previously bad foulers, with conventional rifling, no idea why or if it is just a coincidence.
My 17 Rem loves HBN, goes for ages between cleaning, unlike other 17s I have heard of.

[AlanF]

...Where does one buy Moly? I assume it's molybdenum disulphide...

Howard,
NIOA import Lyman moly powder in 170gram containers (enough for a lifetime), so your local gun shop should be able to order it from them.
Alan

[RDavies]

...Where does one buy Moly? I assume it's molybdenum disulphide...

Howard,
NIOA import Lyman moly powder in 170gram containers (enough for a lifetime), so your local gun shop should be able to order it from them.
Alan

Alan, you have used more Moly than any of us, do you think it reduced the hard carbon build up?

[saum2]

Adam,
I have a stack of HBN if u want try some, similar method as the Moly but in the USA they leave them out in the heat to get them hot before they start the tumbling process. use Shellite, dry them, heat them in the sun then into your jars/containers with the ball bearings for a couple of hours or so, polish with an old shirt sleeve. My 6xc prodjies have been coated with HBN and it shoots. In my opinion HBN or Moly just extends your shooting time before cleaning, then u must clean the barrel very well. It also creates another small problem for me, I need a few sighters/blowoff shots before it hammers after cleaning.
Geoff

[johnk]

I tried HBN. Couldn't find a method to apply it easily & evenly. Didn't change velocities appreciably from bare projectiles. Couldn't get anything to shoot well with it except my original Dyer HBCs in my FS rifle, but it did clean out a treat.

I've been using moly since around 2000 for my match rifle with heavy pills & these days with everything I shoot. I clean daily with Subaru upper engine cleaner run in on a brush (old wire or new bristle) & leave the bore dampened with Ballistol until I shoot again. I do a full bare metal clean when I get worried, which is usually a Queens series or thereabouts.

[Razer]

I do not actually use Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2) but, Tungsten Disulfide (WS2)

WS2 is a lot finer in micron, and, more durable for what we require as a coating for a projectile gathering heat as it travels down the barrel.
I bought mine several years ago direct from the company in Canada/USA(?).
I do know that it cost me, at that time, $112 for two 500gram bags. No idea of current price but there were no restrictions on posting it to Australia.
I do not think that at my rate of usage that I will need to purchase any more.

Comparisons between Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2) & Tungsten Disulfide (WS2)

http://www.ws2oil.com/what-is-ws2.html

http://www.lowerfriction.com/pdf/8.pdf