First time rifle reloader - check me please

Razer · Post by **Razer** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:10 pm

Just out of curiosity David, how well did the factory ammo shoot?

The reason that I ask this question is that when our club rifle is in maximum use I will give my rifle to the shooter who is waiting, (and they are often not that experienced) who then proceed to shoot 56's plus with factory HBC's.
With my chamber it means that the HBC are jumping 80 thou., and yet they still waterline the centre.
I also shoot my hand-loads with a 30 thou jump with no problems.

When I neglected to keep up the checking of throat erosion in my son's Angel I found out that it was jumping 55 thou with no loss of consistency in elevation. I reset to seat at 30 thou but it is probably back to 50+ again. That barrel has now had over 5500 rounds through it and is still humming.

The club Omark will waterline the target consistently and I calculate that it is also jumping 60+thou with factory HBC's.

A lot of elevation problems (discounting the shooter) are caused by not aligning all components during the reloading, and that is from the first stage of resizing, whether full, partial or neck. Whatever you do from that point on is a waste of time if you don't get that part right.
Another item to take into account is how quickly does your barrel foul, and, does it clean up properly to start with. :?:

A fouled barrel is the easiest way to get a nice spread of shots. :roll:

Ray.

mike H · Post by **mike H** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:07 pm

David,
I am probably stepping in where angels fear to tread,however here goes. You are a pistol shooter,so you know that sight alignment and trigger release are the main thing to fire good shots, rifle shooting is no different.F/class shooting with a supported rifle and a telescopic sight is easier to get closer to the middle,really after a short familiarisation with the different style of shooting,you should be holding the five ring vertically,if not something is not as good as it should be. Try and get a competent F/class shooter to shoot a couple of stages with your rifle and factory ammunition and see how he goes,as well if some kind shooter over there would let you shoot a stage with a known accurate rifle,it would be good.
A lot of shooters hold themselves back,blaming themselves,when in fact the gear is the problem and not only new shooters.
Keep at it.
Mike.

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:50 pm

Razer wrote:Just out of curiosity David, how well did the factory ammo shoot?

The reason that I ask this question is that when our club rifle is in maximum use I will give my rifle to the shooter who is waiting, (and they are often not that experienced) who then proceed to shoot 56's plus with factory HBC's.
With my chamber it means that the HBC are jumping 80 thou., and yet they still waterline the centre.
I also shoot my hand-loads with a 30 thou jump with no problems.
When I neglected to keep up the checking of throat erosion in my son's Angel I found out that it was jumping 55 thou with no loss of consistency in elevation. I reset to seat at 30 thou but it is probably back to 50+ again. That barrel has now had over 5500 rounds through it and is still humming.
The club Omark will waterline the target consistently and I calculate that it is also jumping 60+thou with factory HBC's.

A lot of elevation problems (discounting the shooter) are caused by not aligning all components during the reloading, and that is from the first stage of resizing, whether full, partial or neck. Whatever you do from that point on is a waste of time if you don't get that part right.
Another item to take into account is how quickly does your barrel foul, and, does it clean up properly to start with. A fouled barrel is the easiest way to get a nice spread of shots.
Ray.

So far, I have only used Factory ammo (308 155gr Palma Match) in my Omark and Savage 308's. I got considerably better results with the Omark than the Savage (50+ compared to 30's and 40's) so I am hoping it is just the Savage 'shooting in' or me getting comfortable with it. The Savage stock (butt end) is considerably shorter than the Omark so I have been holding it differently - fitting the shooter to the rifle than the other way round. I've added a butt pad insert and a thick recoil pad adding about 2-3 inches to the butts length which should bring it closer to what I need (to fit me)

Cheers

David

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:57 pm

mike H wrote:David,
I am probably stepping in where angels fear to tread,however here goes. You are a pistol shooter,so you know that sight alignment and trigger release are the main thing to fire good shots, rifle shooting is no different.F/class shooting with a supported rifle and a telescopic sight is easier to get closer to the middle,really after a short familiarisation with the different style of shooting,you should be holding the five ring vertically,if not something is not as good as it should be. Try and get a competent F/class shooter to shoot a couple of stages with your rifle and factory ammunition and see how he goes,as well if some kind shooter over there would let you shoot a stage with a known accurate rifle,it would be good.
A lot of shooters hold themselves back,blaming themselves,when in fact the gear is the problem and not only new shooters.
Keep at it.
Mike.

Yes - you would think so - BUT - my trigger control is not that great in pistol.....

Having said that, from the outset, shooting club rifles, other shooters rifles and my Omark, I was getting 50+'s at all distances (even 900 albeit coached and using a A grade shooters custom rifle). BUT I was starting to develop a sore shoulder from recoil (poor butt position I think since I kept hitting my collar bone) so poor form is, what I suspect, my primary problem and possibly flinching. I have some soft rubber recoil pads installed on the butt of both rifles and now feel nothing during recoil so if I am flinching, that should soon disappear.

Cheers

David

macguru · Post by **macguru** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:58 pm

If you rebarrel the savage and check the bedding your scores will probably go up dramatically......

There are not many Savage FTRs getting good results that i have seen without modification

Southcape · Post by **Southcape** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:30 pm

Check the torque of the action screws. Savage is notorious for letting them out of the factory a tad loose.

DannyS · Post by **DannyS** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:54 pm

David, some months ago I offered some advice, how much you have taken notice of, I don't know.

Re your rifle, the quickest and easiest way to check its accuracy is to get the best shooter from your club to try it out. I mean a F Class shooter, not a Target Rifle shooter ( sorry target rifle shooters but some are not used to scopes etc). Might not be good for your ego, but will quickly show if the rifle has any future.

Cheers
Danny

macguru · Post by **macguru** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:37 pm

Linda, I agree, they set the action screws too light and also the trigger way too light so that if a shooter puts any side pressure on the trigger it will decock rather than fire. The back action screw should be a little lighter (30) than the front two which should be about (40) inch pounds. BUT even when you do all that alot of them will only group in the 5 ring which means they are pretty well useless. I would look at the clearance between the barrel and stock but it may just come down to buying a proper match barrel .... even if you go this way its still probably cheaper than a custom target rifle such as a barnard.

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:33 am

DannyS wrote:David, some months ago I offered some advice, how much you have taken notice of, I don't know.

Re your rifle, the quickest and easiest way to check its accuracy is to get the best shooter from your club to try it out. I mean a F Class shooter, not a Target Rifle shooter ( sorry target rifle shooters but some are not used to scopes etc). Might not be good for your ego, but will quickly show if the rifle has any future.

Cheers
Danny

Hi Danny,

I've been away from rifle shooting for almost 6 months due to health and other issues and only just came back to it last weekend. I'll have an opportunity to get our best to shoot the rifle in a couple of weeks when we have a practise session programmed.

I just found that topic again and re-reading it. I have already applied a couple of those suggestions but not all (yet). I have to admist that my form is somewhat inconsistant at the moment and I will indeed need to do a lot more dry firing to sort out a consistant and comfortable position behind the rifle.

You also suggested lowering the scope magnification - why? (not questioning - just trying to understand)

Cheers

David

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:45 am

macguru wrote:Linda, I agree, they set the action screws too light and also the trigger way too light so that if a shooter puts any side pressure on the trigger it will decock rather than fire. The back action screw should be a little lighter (30) than the front two which should be about (40) inch pounds. BUT even when you do all that alot of them will only group in the 5 ring which means they are pretty well useless. I would look at the clearance between the barrel and stock but it may just come down to buying a proper match barrel .... even if you go this way its still probably cheaper than a custom target rifle such as a barnard.

Yes, originally I had not been aware of the torque setting requirements (not in the manual). I then found an Blog article on the subject and applied the settings and method it recommended (30 in/lb on the front 2 and starting at 15 in/lb on the back one) Perhaps this is the reason my groups went from 2 riing to 4 ring! Also, I have the trigger wound up to it's maximum weight.

At the present time I am not interested in being among the best and grouping within the 5 at all distances would be more than fine for me. I figure that by the time I am good enough to want to be among the best it will will be time to send one of by rifles off to be customised (the reason I have 2 308's - so I always have something to shoot)

Cheers

David

DannyS · Post by **DannyS** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:35 am

Hi David, I'm glad you have been able to come back to the sport and I trust that your health and other circumstances have improved.

I had to go back and find that previous post.

Re scope magnification, I don't remember what sort of scope you were using. Sometimes it is advisable to lower the magnification especially when shooting in heavy mirage, a lower magnification will sometimes give a clearer image. Also if you are using a high magnification then any wobbles caused by you or the wind buffering are magnified which can make it harder on you as you attempt to hold the rifle completely still.

I trust that makes sense, good luck and stick with it.

Cheers
Danny

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:58 pm

Looks like things might be coming together at last. Today shot a 500m with the Savage and was, with the exception of 2 fliers in each of 2 details, able to maintain a 1 MOA and 3/4 MOA group vertically and a 1.5 MOA group horizontally.

What was different? I shot my own loads (45.5gn AR2208, 155gn HBC, 10-15/1000 jump, CCI200 primers, Winchester cases) but, I think far more importantly, I was more consistent with the way I shot. For 18 of the 24 shots, recoil as straight back and I never lost sight of the target in the scope. The bad shots saw the rifle jump to the left. I didn't go chasing the last shot with scope changes and just aimed off.

Confidence in my equipment may see an improvement in my performance

My 45.5gn charge resulted in minor cratering on the primers so I imagine I am effectively a the max load for the Savage with the 155 HBC's. I also bought some 168gn VLD's to try. Anyone have some suggested loads? I made up a dozen with 44.0gn AR2208 to try next time I shoot.

Cheers

David