New to the sport - advice sought

[Nesta]

Hello eveyone,
Im new to the sport, and new to this site - It looks like there is some honest opinions and lots of experience in here.
I shot airrifle an .22 a couple of decades ago and have just been exposed to some long range shooting- I did well too and Im hooked.

Im looking to buy my first rifle /scope and most of the sales people Ive tried arent interested in really talking to newbies without trying to embarress me infront of other customers.
I dont want to be talked into something that I'll regret later.
Ive been told that 30/06 is the wat to go because of wider availability & choice. Is that Calibre any good for F Class? or is there too much recoil?

Im looking for a seconnd hand left hander. I want the best quality for my bucks but Im only willing to spend around $2000 for rifle & Scope.

Can anyone offer some sort of choice or advice here.

Also regadring Scope - Ive been told that 3-9X50 is the way to go.
Should I spend as much on the scope as on the rifle??

And, whilst you're sharing your years of experience, AMMO, I wont be re loading, so should I buy expensive ammo and stick to one sort, or should I try out heaps of brands etc?

Hope you can help, and thanks in advance for your time.

[Simon C]

Gday Nesta,

Welcome to the sport!

With regard to caliber choice, that will depend on whether you intend on shooting F Standard or F Open. Standard requires you to use either 223 rem or 308win. Open allows you to use anything up to about 8mm depending on the rating of the range being shot on.

Rifle wise, you will probably be able to find a LH Rem 700 somewhere. These actions are great for us as you can get heaps of after market bits n pieces that are just about a drop in fit and pretty much every gunsmith knows how to work on them.

Scope wise, 3-9 power is nowhere near enough. Somewhere around 24 power is acceptable from my point of view. This will vary from shooter to shooter. Leupold and Nightforce are good brands that offer lifetime warranty. They also make these scopes for our purpose of target shooting so the internal mechanisms stand up to the knob cranking we put them thru.

My suggestion to the new shooter is to spend time at your chosen club and ask the seasoned shooters their opinion too. That way, you can try and see the different equipment and make an informed choice from there. Most people are helpful as they want you to take the sport up and the added advantage of this method is that you will often find what you are looking for and be able to pick it up at a good price from another F-Classer.

Hope that helps

[RAVEN]

Good advice Simon
Look at the Savage F-Class rifles very good of the self
Weaver scopes and Sighton good value for the $$$
Cheers
RB

[Nesta]

Thanks for the quick reply Simon,
Great info

I have seen a Sauer 200 30/06 for around $1500. DO you know anything about them?

Also, is it possible to change scopes for different set ups. Say to use the 24 power on the range but use a 3-9 if I ever go hunting (a rarity)? Or daies that require a while ne set up ect.

The scope you mention are upward of $1500. I'd love to do my bit to stimulate the economy, but cant afford it right now.

[Malcolm Hill]

Hi Nesta
It's good to hear that you want to get into "F" class shooting. If you are more serious about target shooting than hunting it pays not to try and have a rifle that will do both, there are too many compromises involved. For "F" class shooting you need a scope with good magnification capable of elevation adjustment from 300yds out to at least 1000yds and when set up like that sometimes they can't be zeroed for shorter hunting ranges. If you shoot in an area where mirage is a problem a variable scope is preferable and one with parallax adjustment is almost essential. If you are not going to reload the 223 is not an option as there is currently no competitive factory ammo available,the 80gn bullets are a reloading proposition only. Most of the "F" open calibres also are either not factory loaded or not loaded with suitable bullets. The easiest choice would be the 308 with NRAA factory loads shooting "F" class standard. Most manufacturers that produce left hand rifles make them in 308 and there are left handed Omark's still around that can easily be made into competitive "F" std rigs. As others have said go to the range and talk to the shooters and see what they are using and I'm sure they will steer you in the right direction. Quite often they will know of something that may be for sale that might suit your needs. All the best and have fun in "F" class.
Regards Malcolm.

[Grant]

welcome to the forum and to the world of target shooting
I had this flyer turn up in my mail box yesterday it might be of interest to you as it is a full package
Complete 308win full bore shooting out-fit.
Up for sale is my complete shooting out-fit which includes:-
- Musgrave 308win target rifle (SN#250)
- Maddco 26" stainless barrel
- Top Cat bedded stock with accessory rail
- Fortress custom rifle case
- Davey match trigger
- Centra iris aperture
- Sight 3.0 Combi (Iris aperture [0.5-3.0] with integrated 5 color and polarization-filter)
- Centra front sight (1)
- Duo-Vario [2.8-4.8/6.4-9.0]
- Spiritbubble
- Centra front sight (2)
- Vario Swing [1.8-4.3/1.6mm]
- McRorie rear sight
- Redding competition seating die (308win)
- Redding full length die (308win)
- Lee collet die (308win)
- Lyman 308win case guage
- Sierra 155gr moly projectiles (~800)
- ADI 2208 powder (~4kg)
- Lapua cases (~ 200)
- MTM ammo boxes
- elbow pads
- score book
- Walden Miller shooting jacket (near new)
- Anshultz constant sling
- shooting glove and hat
$2250 o.n.o, all in great condition. willing to swap for competition air target pistol (eg. Steyr LP10/LP2), Dillon progressive reloading press or like (+ difference in cash). Photos are available and can be emailed if required.
license 467-097-50B
Geoffrey Dick
0411-121-348
geoffrey.dick@med.monash.edu.au
Location: Emerald, 3782

[johnk]

Nesta,

Whereabouts are you located?

If you're close to one of the capital cities, then I suggest that you visit the local NRAA range a few times to get a handle on what type of gear people are using before you consider a purchase of your own.

Other than that, about any reasonable centrefire rifle & scope combination can handle F class with some degree of competence out to 5 or 600 yards with decent handloads, as one of my clubmates proved recently, when he waltzed up to shakedown his CBC break barrel .223 at 400 yards. Well, he did keep them all on paper & did keep us amused.

Two warnings, though:

(1) Most shooters suffer moral shortcomings when they have a rifle for sale - even though buying a preloved unit could well be a good bet for you.

(2) make sure you understand the rules & the difference in performance needed between Standard & open classifications.

John

[Nesta]

Wow, Thank you all for your responses..........so much new lingo to learn.

The more I read the more confusing the options are regarding set up.

The underlying message seems to be - Get down to the range and talk to the folks there before parting with cash.

I'd be prepared to pay for a mentor / coach in the early stages - not just for better shooting, but for all those silly questions that spring up.

There should be a mentoring program (volunteers or paid) to help bring newbies into the sport (for those comfortable enough to admit they know nought)

This forum seems to be the next best thing- Cheers

[IanP]

Ravens suggestion is good, the Savage F-Class rifles get good write ups straight out of the box.

Follow the links given below ...

For F-Open http://www.savagearms.com/12f_class.htm

For S-Std http://www.savagearms.com/12FTR.htm

[Aubrey]

If you are reliant on factory ammo then you have little choice other than .308 as the NRAA ammo is the best value for money available.

I do not think there is any decent 80gr .223 factory ammo around. Outside of that, 6BR or 6XC ammo would put you into F Open, which I assume is not the plan.

Steer clear of retail gunshops they cater for a completely different market and tend to know zero about target shooting.

Hope that helps

[AlanF]

...would put you into F Open, which I assume is not the plan...

I don't want to start a Std vs Open range war here, but reading what Nesta has said, the only calibre he has mentioned is not a .223 or .308. If he was to call in at our range, he would be offered a trial shoot with our brand new Savage 6BR .

Alan

[Nesta]

Thanks again folks, Sorry for the late return to the forum.

Regarding calibres and Standard Vs Open rules - I have ZERO PREFERENCE - I had just heard that there are more 30/06 second hand out there at reasonable prices. What class I shoot in is not important to me at this time. I guess that will depend on what I buy - AND who spends time with me at the range to convince me either way......however,,,,,,

I went a couple of times down to an F class range- even arranged ahead of time to meet with certain "officials" from the club to have a shoot.
Most of the members I spoke to were really nice and gave me their time and we genuinely happy to show me their rifles and talk to me...... but - Alas, the "officials" were too busy and I didnt even get to shoot - again.

I sincerely understand that they were busy- on both occasions, but I felt like an interuption to them- despite making an appointment. I was expecting a little more organisation. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

Quite dissapointing from a sport/club that claims they want new members.

If only I had a block of land big enough to do some target practice.

Regarding SCOPE POWER.......
The standard for F seems to be anywhere from 24 to 35, however I have recently read that British us 12 powere on their L96s long sniper rifles.
Is that simply that they are trying to hit a larger target than the Bull or could I get away with a 12 power?

[AlanF]

Nesta,

Not sure what State or what range you visited, but if you pre-arranged your visit to our range, you would be given a choice of TR, F-Std or F-Open club rifles to try on your first visit. Some clubs don't make a decent effort to welcome new shooters unfortunately. I would look for alternatives in your case.

Regarding scope power, tactical (sniper) scopes are often in the sub 20X range. Probably has something to do with light gathering ability, field of view, and adjustment range, all of which drop off at higher magnifications. And speaking with a few experienced army and police snipers, in the real world most shots are taken at ranges less than 300yd.

For long range target shooting we have a completely different set of priorities, so most shooters prefer higher magnification (anywhere up to about 50X). But this is very much a personal preference thing - the eye to brain connection seems to vary between individuals, so you really need to try different magnifications before you decide what to get, particularly if you intend getting a fixed magnification scope.

My personal opinion is that scope magnification over 20X is unnecessary - sometimes in heavy mirage I find 20X too much and wind down to 15X. I think a 20X scope will still discriminate far better than the accuracy of any F-Class shooting I have seen, or can imagine. Far more important in a scope is reliabilty in holding the point of aim, and accuracy of adjustment.

Good luck with your next visit to a range.
Alan

[Nesta]

Thanks for the quick response Alan. It makes sense.

I have a question though, if I set my rifle up with a higher power variable scope for the range, on those very rare occasions that we do go hunting, can I interchange the scope with a lesser power?
Is it just a matter of having the correct mounts to allow change over?

It is just a matter of sighing or Zeroing again with the nes scope?

Again, This site is great for this sort of chat. I know so little.

[Paul Janzso]

Hi Nesta

Sure you can use a multitude of scopes on one rifle.

Leupold make a very popular scope mount called "quick release" and that is just what they do . So you can have your prefered rifle for F Class and have 2 scopes, one for hunting , one for range shooting.

Cheers
Paul

PS Just my 2c worth, have a look at the Tikka Super Varmint rifles, they have great out of box accuracy. If you had one in 308 you could buy club ammo for F Class standard and heavier projectiles for hunting.
I use a Tikka Tactical in 223 for F Class standard and hunting. Another member has a Tikka Super Varmint in 308 which he uses for F class standard and for hunting.