Horizontal movement during barrel seasoning.

[Brad Y]

I shot on sunday in dead calm conditions. No wind, nothing just sweet sweet stillness. My elevation was absolute max 2 bullet holes high. Stoked with that. What I did find though was that my bullet holes (berger hybrids) kept moving right. I was shooting a clean barrel- the first sighter was off bare steel (verified with borescope) with a couple of drops of oil on a patch run down it before setting up the rifle.

From there it just pulled to the right, even the first sighter and subsequent shots didnt vary in vertical. Ended with a 58 and a few X's. Which was a little dissapointing considering I got a nice flat 59 with the VLD's with a switchy tailwind that was throwing everyones shots left and right and up and down later on.

Just wondering if this sort of thing is more to do with the barrel slowly seasoning up and imparting a bit more right twist as it fouled, or if its a possible issue with seating depth tuning on the hybrids. I stupidly didnt re test that load once the wind picked up.

Going to shoot the VLD's first this weekend and the hybrids second to see if that makes a difference, but would like to hear other experiences and opinions.

[RDavies]

How much sideways movement are you talking about? If it is a small amount of movement, then it could be the barrel tune, but that would only be less than 1 moa. I have had barrels which did give a flat group, but in each case, a minor change in seating depth or powder load fixed it. With a previous short mag, when ever the throat eroded, the groups would go wide until I seated the VLDs out another .005" or so.
When I used Hybrids in this barrel, as I gave it more jump, the group got flatter but wider.
Other things which can cause it is un-stressrelieved factory barrels or a scope going off.

[RAVEN]

or bedding or screw tension or spindrift or bad technique or all of the above
Best thing to do is shoot groups on paper 100m or my preference 300m
Not only will it give you proper feed back you can also tell if the load is tuned properly by the shape of the carbon around the hole.
If it displays a horizontal stringing then try some of the above.

what distance were you shooting at?

[DenisA]

My 6BR barrel walks .4 moa right over 15 shots from a cold clean barrel.

I like to keep it fouled a little before a club comp shoot or other.

I don't know if its a fouling related characteristic or whether the barrel hasn't been stress relieved through correct heat treatment after button rifling the barrel.

I dont notice it at distance, probably because my wind reading error is greater than the slowly shifting POI. It is very obvious shooting 5 shot groups at the short range and comparing multiple targets.

I'm yet to repeat that test beginning with a fouled barrel. That would tell me if it was barrel stress or fouling. Up until recently I had not been a believer in shooting fouled barrels and had meticulously kept them clean. Now I've seen first hand that different barrels like different cleaning regimes.

[Brad Y]

Talking from being in the X ring on the right hand side then the group going just (on the line but greater part out) into the 5 ring. So yes around the 1MOA mark. This was with hybrids jumped 20 thou. I can look at seating depth with them- powder charge I know Im in an area that seems to be good, just waiting on my MS2 to confirm a few things.

There is no bedding- barrel block setup with free floating action. Everything is tight. Unsure maybe the top block screws could be tweaked to tune. Unsure yet, its a pretty new setup with not quite 200 shots down the tube.

Groups at 100m are just a ragged hole- they havent told me anything but this group was at 400m and told me something wasnt quite right. Great with vertical, horizontal though not good enough. Wish I actually took a photo of it now.

I will test the same load again this weekend but with a fouled barrel first. I will load some more with a 10 thou jump as well to see if that helps tighten it up a little. The VLD's jammed seem to shoot really well- as I expected, I was preferring to load with a jump instead of jam in case of a cease fire and unload command. The other point which is very valid is bad technique- its a new rifle and I need some more time behind the butt to figure it all out.

[AlanF]

Brad,

The ragged hole group at 100 suggests to me that something was different at 400. In my experience if a setup has good lateral accuracy at short range, it'll retain that accuracy at the longs. Vertical is different, and can deteriorate with distance for a multitude of reasons.

Maybe your rests were positioned differently? Maybe there was a slight change in conditions as you shot?

Alan

[RAVEN]

Maybe the rest wasn't done up properly
I wouldn't go making a judgment on one range at 400m do 3 or 4 and plot the shots.
Body position can have an effect although IMO this is more to do with vertical.
Plot using corrective plot sheets this will give you a better idea of its grouping potential.
RB

[Brad Y]

The more and more I think about it, being a new gun and still getting used to it, the problem more than likely is a technique/setup issue. Will get it all set up tonight in the living room (mrs will love me for it) and spend some time with a snap cap going through the motions. Will repeat the groups again at 500m on sunday morning.

I dont think the conditions were changing, everything was still, the only thing that side might have been warm/cool pockets of air. Our range is situated in a state pine forest and the few channels that let wind across sometimes produce all sorts of unexplained wonders.

[Brad Y]

Last night I spent some time dry firing in the living room all set up on a nice wooly rug. Wasnt going outside on the grass with a few inches of rain falling.

I noticed a couple of related things while not having to focus on flags and a target.

1. I am actually a fairly short person so when comfortable on the rifle, if i reach forward to make an elevation adjustment with the back screw of the rest, Im pushing into the butt. I know quite often if Im shooting multiple shots quickly to make the most of a condition i will keep my hand up on that screw. Once getting into position on the rifle everything was fine again. I dont think my stock needs shortening, I already made it like that to suit me. But wont rule that out if need be.

2. As a result of the above, if Im up and winding the screw my head drops putting cheek pressure on the butt. So the times Im using it I will have cheek pressure, other times when the rifle doesnt need adjustment Im not putting cheek pressure on the gun.

3. And when being further forward my neck gets sore and I find it harder to keep the cheek off the butt too. I moved around to a bit straighter position behind the rifle and was able to lay down behind the scope for alot longer.

Going to keep working on these points the next few nights and take alot more time on the mound making sure setup is straight and correct, rather than just lay down and get shots off quickly so the day can be finished and packed up because others are in a rush.

[DenisA]

Brad, When I load test and when I shoot practice days, I set up my digital camera on a 3 inch tripod and set it to video mode. I record each detail I shoot to an SD card.
That way when I get home, I file them on the computer and watch through the shoot.
I record it from my trigger finger side with the camera at about 10:00 (left handed shooter). In the frame I capture from the forend against the front rest stop to behind my shoulder. Letsa me view most things that are important.
I'm looking for my pre shot routine (for every shot) that I have, induced pressures (shoulder, grip, cheek), trigger control, flinch, follow through, co-axe hand control steadiness, rifle torque and generally recoil management.
Aside from everything being correct, I look for consistency across the board.
Technique flaws are easy to see. Where this is really handy is that I can analyse my new targets/groups while watching the vids and instantly identify if flyers are caused by technique or other (wind or load depending on the distance and flyer).
I've found plenty of flaws in the past and find it very handy that I know exactly what to concentrate on fixing the next time.

Its no different to a golf pro recording his clients swing for the client to study and correct.

I get a few smart ass remarks. People not understanding and assuming I'm vein. I don't really worry about that because I can see how much more I know about my technique and the confidence it gives me calling a bad load shot or a bad wind call.

When analysing the video, I'll replay each shot, over and over, from a second prior to the shot to returning the rifle to battery. Each time I re-play it I focus on a different area until they're all checked.

I'm sure my wife thinks I love myself as well.

At the end of the day, its better to see what your actually doing given all the pressures of the actual shoot rather than what your doing at home in lounge room on your best behaviour with no distractions.

[Brad Y]

Thanks dennis- I have a drift 170HD action sports camera that I use on the boat filming fishing trips, I might set that up as well.

[bruce moulds]

what alan and raven said.
subject to scope potential issues.
speaking of scopes i have been known to forget parralax adjustment.
this adjustment can be difficult in heavy mirage.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Brad Y]

Hi Bruce.

I will rule out the scope for now, its been working perfectly well on a 308W until I had the 6.5mm built.

[bruce moulds]

brad,
the book from blackduck publishing, mentioned in the general forum, can shed a lot of light on gun and scope mounting issues that can cause these problems.
bedding, chambering, and scope mounting, can cause naggling problems if not done absolutely.
buy the book and you will find it most interesting.
it also covers how to make custom dies for your chamber.
if the scope is a nightforce, they will go through it for nothing. great peace of mind.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Brad Y]

Thanks Bruce, its a sightron SIII target scope so again has warranty if need be. Ive read the article from NSW Fclass site on setting everything up and I will do this again with the scope to make sure its fine and set up correctly. The fact that it shot the 140VLD's into a nice groups still has me thinking load tuning a bit, but to make that 100% I need to eliminate the factor of me as best I can. Will know by this weekend anyway by shooting it all over again.