Help choosing dies

[John23]

Hi

I am putting cash away for a 6MMBR barrel and dies coming up.

In the past I have used many dies from the cheap to the dearer stuff.

On my last Fopen rifle I was using Forster ultra seater , body bump and redding bushing neck die.
This combo was giving very low run out and I was happy with the money I spent.

The only problem I currently have now is I keep looking at these Wilson inline dies and wondering if they the future of my reloading
Essentially the Forster seater holds the case the same as the wilson but when at the benchrest range Wilson appears to be the only choice of the BR guys.

I guess the question is do Wilson dies offer better accuracy over other dies?
Or is it more the convenience of only packing a small arbor press in range bag?
Do many of you use wilson dies?
Are they much slower to use than a standard die is press system?

Thanks

JH

[DenisA]

John I'm keen to hear what people have to say about Wilson dies V's others. I wonder the same thing all the time.

I have a few Redding comp neck die sets with the micro neck and seating dies. I reckon they're great. I also have Forster micro seaters. I prefer the Redding seating die to the Forster. The Redding feels more solid and in my opinion gives more uniform seating.

That said, 6BR's are so accurate and easy to tune, you could probably seat the bullet with a hammer and still shoot 60's.

Keen to hear about those Wilson dies.

P.S. Jasmay's got a Redding set for sale I think.

[plumbs7]

Umm at the end of the day if you are getting 0-1 thou runout that's all the counts ! Holden - ford debate I guess ! I personally have only used Redding dies which have been achieving the above after fire forming .

I've seen a f standard shooter shoot a 90.10 at 500yds with up to 7 thou runout , unfire formed brass.
Also seen crappy steel factory match rounds at 500 yds shoots just as good as perfectly loaded match ammo in the exact same rifle. So what can we draw from this?

There only one certainty about riflery is it's uncertain! IMO

[Matt P]

I use a combo of both, I use threaded dies for sizing as I like to FLS every reload and I use Wilson seaters.
One advantage with Wilson dies is the ability to modify them when playing with wildcats as they can be reamed out very easily.
Matt P

[DaveMc]

One advantage with Wilson dies is the ability to modify them when playing with wildcats as they can be reamed out very easily.
Matt P

Same can be said for the Redding and Forster dies. Custom sleeves are as simple as a chamber reamer, followed by throating reamer (further through of course). Only trick is maintaining concentricity throughout of course. With a small amount of preplanning the sleeves can be turned down to work in both Forster and Redding. All three brands can be made to load extremely straight ammo.

This is a handy trick - even for standard chambers - factory dies have to be made for largest common denominator and often have play. If you want a snug fit (and hence less run out) then custom made to your chamber reamer can give fantastic results.

Of course sizing dies (neck or full length sizer) need to be addressed as well and this is where the most gain normally comes. A lot of factory full length sizing dies squeeze in too far and then have to pull back out too far (To test this on your die just pull out the decapping stem, expander assembly and run a case through and measure neck diameter before and after allowing for a little springback). The Wilson is very handy to travel with but so is a redding or forster in a lee hand press.

[AlanF]

I do the same as Matt. Another plus for Wilsons is you get a very good feel of seating resistance with an arbor press.

[shooter mcreid]

Hello John,
I have both and have found no difference in accuracy. Both produce less than a thou runout or maybe I should say don't introduce any extra runout. I would base your die purchase on what will be most convenient and economical for you.
You could always borrow an inline die and arbor press to see what you think.
Josh

[John23]

I guess the next question has to be :

What is the main cause of run out?
I would assume it is caused in the sizing process?
If so a chamber style bullet seater can only seat a bullet as good as the sized piece of brass it has been provided?

Or am I off here?

I have never really put much thought to it untill I started shooting 308win.

My 6.5lapua had 0.001" at worst run out using the combo mentioned in my first post.
A previous 223 had equally good results using cheap RCBS dies.

My 308 using RCBS dies and a Redding bushing neck die has 0.007" and somtimes worse.

The 223 and 6.5x47 both used lapua brass.
The 308 win brass is winchester. But it has been neck turned, batched ect ect.

So where is the problem?
Is it the luck of the draw with the cheaper dies?
Or dose the maker of brass play a factor even after it has been turned true.



At the end of the day I think it is safe to say spend the extra money and get quality match dies.
And if the Winson's dont prove here to give better results I guess I will stick to what I know

JH

[John23]

Looks like the answers to my questions were made in the same time as I was typing them.

Thanks everyone


Josh
Thats a great offer Thank you!!! But I will decline

I have a mate with a set of wilsons and maybe I will head up to his place to give them another test drive.
This time with testing to make clarity of the results

JH

[shooter mcreid]

John,
Virgin brass will always have runout and up to 0.007" is very common from what I have seen.
Fire forming seems to be the best way to straighten them up. If you are seeing runout after fire forming then it will probably be in the sizing process. The more sizing and harder sizing seems to produce a higher chance of introducing runout. Ie, if you full length size there is probably a greater chance of introducing runout when compared to a light neck size only. I like to neck size only with a redding bushing die on my 308 brass and very rarely see any introduced during the process.
Measure a few cases after firing, then perform your sizing process and remeasure. If they go from 1-2 thou to 5-7 thou, then you might want to investigate further.

[Brad Y]

Same as Matt here too. Load development on the range is as easy as some pre sized and primed brass, a set of scales and a Wilson seater. No need for an arbor press if you don't have room to pack one. It's easy enough to use the seater by hand.

[ned kelly]

G'day all,
for Wilson dies you need to buy an arbour press for consistency. Failing that you need to buy a combo press like the Harrell or Hood which can use either die type.
I've done only one comparison between Redding Competition Microseater and a Wilson seater.
My Wilson 6ppc gave about 1.5thou average runout and the Redding gave about 1 thou average runout.
Advantage of a Wilson is that you can quickly change seating depth out of the back of your car if testing on the range. Seat loaded rounds 50-80 thou long and from your jam figure (touching the rifling) then progressively reseat the longer bullets into batches for shooting.
I've used both and they all work well.
Hope this helps
Cheerio Ned

[G.COSTA]

I use Wilson Neck Sizing and Seating dies with K&M arbor press and then have the redding body dies for when the cases need a FL size.

Iam set up for .308, 6.5x284 and .284 and the only thing is that even if they do take a LITTLE longer overall (for neck sizing and seating) once you get into a rhythm you will surprise yourself with how quick you can be. And best part is you can take them anywhere!!

The only thing I can recommend is only getting the Stainless Steel with micrometer on top... And pay the extra few $$$ for the VLD seating stem (even if you don't use VLD projectiles, it's good to have incase you ever do), The steel seating die for .284 I got (was all that I was able to get at the time) got all rusty over our muggy summer even tho I sprayed it with WD40

-George