Windreading Performance Comparison

[Wal86]

If you want to sort the wheat from chaff, "shoot blind" dont mark the shots..

THE END

[wsftr]

To anyone interested, the subject was raised on another thread regarding the relative wind-reading skills of TR and F-Class shooters. I offered to have a look at this using a simulator and some score data.
So here goes. I believe the top level F-Class shooters generally outperform the top level TR shooters in terms of wind reading accuracy.

I interpreted that at face value - as in having nothing to do with the equipment used. And at face value divisive.
for instance - I don't see how your approach on analysis lands at this suggestion - I'd add that bipods in the hands of most exponents appear to be significantly slower than pedestal rests. You don't take into account the strategies used by the individuals. To actually analyse you wouldn't use comp results you would setup side by side and run a like for like comparison. But IMO the relative speed of pedastals vs bipods has nada to do with the "relative wind reading skills..." starting line.
I'm not sure about the I must shoot FTR and the FTR figures aren't good comment - I assume this suggests I have ruffled feathers - I don't.

Anyways - more power to you and what you intend to do

[bruce moulds]

the real issue here is a definition of wind reading.
to me this does not include reacting to what happened on the last shot and shooting fast enough that any change is minimized.
that is being behind the 8 ball all the way and relying on luck.
real wind reading is about being in front of the 8 ball and having confidence on where a well aimed and fired shot will go prior to and during firing.
when fclass shooters can master this the bar will lift.
as it is now there is a glass ceiling, because winning takes precedence over skill advancement.
bruce.

[Gyro]

Very true Bruce but then winning is the whole point aint it ? Nobody remembers who came second ! It’s the rules that are often the problem I reckon and there’s a few dumb rules in F Class ! I thought that ‘problem’ in Oz where shooters were machine gunning them down there ( with the angled ammo holder/feeder set up along side the guns port ) had been sorted by putting a delay into the E scoring ? Hasn’t it been stopped ? That type of shooting is not a good development to my way of thinking, for all the reasons well thrashed out here before.

Wal says shoot blind. That would ruin all the shooters “chasing the spotter” and I reckon a few do that. I normally don’t as I reckon it doesn’t teach me anything but sometimes at Trentham when it gets really tricky and weird it’s absolutely the best way. The TR shooters can’t take part in that …

So the discussion comes full circle with opinions well discussed here before. Re the original topic I would think it’s obvious that anyone can learn to be a good wind reader. I know I have worked hard at it and it comes down to staying VERY focused on what the flags are doing, and as many of them as you can mentally cope with without getting confused. At Trentham u need to watch lots of them, not like it says in the wind book where you “choose one for the wind direction and one for wind strength”. The mirage is another story, don’t ask me.

[jasmay]

the real issue here is a definition of wind reading.
to me this does not include reacting to what happened on the last shot and shooting fast enough that any change is minimized.
that is being behind the 8 ball all the way and relying on luck.
real wind reading is about being in front of the 8 ball and having confidence on where a well aimed and fired shot will go prior to and during firing.
when fclass shooters can master this the bar will lift.
as it is now there is a glass ceiling, because winning takes precedence over skill advancement.
bruce.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment Bruce.

Even those that shoot quick are using all of the same wind reading skills, I haven’t seen a single one shoot without considering the wind, adjusting between shots, and when needed taking long pauses to assess wind, in fact, I would guess if you found a way to consider the difference in speeds, on average TR & F-Class shooters take very similar amounts of time.

I have seen some very highly regarded TR shooters rip shots down with high success when needed.

I think the run and gun debate is just a relic for those that have chosen not to hone that skill to lean on when they get busted by someone who has.

Personally I’m a slow shooter, but I practice speed when I can as sometimes it’s needed, and even TR shooters seem to do the same.

[AlanF]

..I haven’t seen a single one shoot without considering the wind, adjusting between shots.

When you say "considering the wind" do mean actually checking on flags/mirage or just considering where the last shot landed?

[Gyro]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/thread ... r.3808836/

Jase has got to be taking the piss ?

[jasmay]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/chasing-the-spotter.3808836/

Jase has got to be taking the piss ?

Gyro,

That thread talks about “new shooters” aren’t we discussing those at the pointy end of the game, not those that are still getting used to pulling the trigger.

[jasmay]

..I haven’t seen a single one shoot without considering the wind, adjusting between shots.

When you say "considering the wind" do mean actually checking on flags/mirage or just considering where the last shot landed?

Do you just “chase the spotter” Alan?

[AlanF]

Do you just “chase the spotter” Alan?

Jason,

There are situations where there's no choice but to chase the spotter e.g. no mirage, flags wet etc., but there is a clear trend towards faster shooting to make chasing the spotter a preferred strategy, even in tricky conditions. As a wind coach for the Australian team doesn't that concern you?

[jasmay]

Do you just “chase the spotter” Alan?

Jason,

There are situations where there's no choice but to chase the spotter e.g. no mirage, flags wet etc., but there is a clear trend towards faster shooting to make chasing the spotter a preferred strategy, even in tricky conditions. As a wind coach for the Australian team doesn't that concern you?

No, once upon a time it may have, but no.

I’ve shot enough comps to back my chosen method, as I think most have, I don’t see why I would let it bother me, I personally see all these as skills, chasing the spotter alone will get you caught, and often badly, most of the fast shooter I watch, including TR are still adjusting for wind.

[Matt P]

Looks like we need another rule change, you need to wait for the conditions to change, then dial the scope (no aiming off, that would allow quicker shooting), double check the condition, look for something that's not there and then convince yourself, if it goes back to the original condition wait it out till it changes and then fire a shot.

[AlanF]

Good idea Matt. At last, you've seen the light .

[DannyS]

Alan, you just love sticking your head out.
Maybe we should only be counting the sighters at each range.

[bruce moulds]

or have no sighters like the old dead guys did.
bruce.