2011 Tassie Queens leadup

[ger]

Tassie Queens
Davis Running Results.
There's a link to the running results of the Tassie Queens on the NRAA Web site now.

Bob

Bob,

Not sure why, but I can't find it???

Alan

Sorry, they're there now. On the Home Page.

I took some time out to extinguish my slow burn.

Geoff.

[johnk]

Geoff,

I thought you had a direct resopnsibility. Sorry for my misunderstanding.

My issue is that in 2010 we had a national championship, national teams match & international team match against Britain (which Austtralia won) & not a word of it ever appeared on the NRAA web site. My kneejerk reaction was tha this was just more of the same.

I hope that you can appreciate my misunderstanding of the circumstances.

John

[AlanF]

Thanks Geoff,

Link : http://203.56.36.5/results/snapshot.php?assn=tasra

Some more info for F-Open watchers : Rod Mahon rang with some info about calibres and conditions. Kel used a 6.5 x 47 today, and will use a 284 tomorrow. Rod used a 6 Dasher today and the 7mm Shehane will come out tomorrow. Michelle has a 6BR and Phil a 6x47.

Rod says the weather was difficult for F-Class - mirage was very bad whenever the sun came out of the clouds, and it was alternating frequently from cloudy to clear. When the sun was out all you got was a big black blob, then a cloud would come over and all the lines would be clear. I think he mentioned the words "character building".

Rod will call again each night with any additional snippets of info.

Thanks again Geoff - your efforts are appreciated.

Alan

[AlanF]

John,

Just to show you we care :

http://ozfclass.com/forums/pdf/mrnatsindividual2011.pdf

Alan

[Peter Hulett]

What the?

GER has given me information that I was chasing about the performance of a club member of ours. Thank you Geoff for keeping members informed. I don't care what format they are in so long as I can understand them.

[bobped]

JohnK,

I think you would find that the NRAA would be quite surprised if it was thought that the NRAA was supposed to report the Match Rifle results on their Web Site. I don't think that they think its their responsibility.

Maybe the Match Rifle Web site?
Or if the Match Rifle people requested the NRAA to post the Match Rifle results on the NRAA web site, and forwarded the results in a comprehensible state, then the NRAA would probably attempt to comply.

Bob

P.S. The NRAA webmaster does the whole NRAA Website absolutely free, gratis, and with no charge to anyone.

[johnk]

Bob,

I stand corrected.

Geoff, I misunderstood that there was a formal arrangement between you & NRAA. My opologies.

I had an erroneous view that the States should report their State events on their websites & the NRAA would report the national ones that they were responsible for on their website.

I didn't realise that it was an volunteer site like the Match Rifle one which incidentally is financed by the members of the MR association.

However, Bob, in view of your explanation, isn't it about time that NRAA paid its way & established its own website? Surely most of the information on it is of a nature & importance that necessitates it being a formal vehicle managed by NRAA? The national Queens, the national Field & Rimfire Championship, the national Match Rifle championship are all the responsibility (albeit managed at other levels in all instances) of the NRAA & surely warrant prompt reporting on the NRAA website, likewise all National teams matches, to say nothing of issues requiring timely notification like your recent advices on the SSRs - and the SSRs themselves.

If as you say, publication of results necessitates a particular form of reporting, then maybe it is up to the NRAA to manadate the requirements to their agent Ithe individual states) when they outsource their events. Tracking back in history, the QRA website managed to report the 2010 MR championship coherently from the statistics provided at that time when it wasn't listed nationally.

John

[AlanF]

...isn't it about time that NRAA paid its way & established its own website?...

John,

The NRAA website is I'm sure owned and run by them. I would expect that major decisions about the content would come from the executive. Geoff Roberts is webmaster, and he is unpaid. What he is doing in Tassie with results on the NRAA website is a personal effort on his part to get the results out quicker than they otherwise would. The TRA and MR websites will I'm sure put up the same results during the next week or so.

One day the results might go live to the internet (a la Cricinfo), and I expect Geoff will get involved with that technology down the track. In the meantime, he's giving us a taste of quicker results via the manually updated "Running Scoreboard".

Alan

[ger]

Bob,

I stand corrected.

Geoff, I misunderstood that there was a formal arrangement between you & NRAA. My opologies.

No. It's a very informal arrangement that has been in place for nearly seven years now.

I had an erroneous view that the States should report their State events on their websites & the NRAA would report the national ones that they were responsible for on their website.

I didn't realise that it was an volunteer site like the Match Rifle one which incidentally is financed by the members of the MR association.

Your view and expectation is valid. But the reality is unfortunately different.

The NRAA has from time to time offered to help fund the site but I have declined: this is my contribution to the sport. I have elected to provide my time and computing resources at no cost. This is no different to many other folks out there who also put in enormous amonts of time and energy in order to keep this sport alive and (I'd like to think) vibrant. Given the personalities I have encountered I certainly _do_ think it's vibrant! And that this a good thing.

We have actually installed some computer infrastructure at Belmont with the intention of moving the site from my office to within the physical confines of NRAA House, and once we establish a broadband connection there that offers adequate reliability and performance this process will be completed. Hopefully in time for the WLRC in October.

I think that the vast majority of websites pertaining to shooting (clubs mainly I guess) are privately funded and maintained for free by individuals. Most with much more artistic flair that I have! I think this is also to the credit of the individuals involved.

However, Bob, in view of your explanation, isn't it about time that NRAA paid its way & established its own website? Surely most of the information on it is of a nature & importance that necessitates it being a formal vehicle managed by NRAA? The national Queens, the national Field & Rimfire Championship, the national Match Rifle championship are all the responsibility (albeit managed at other levels in all instances) of the NRAA & surely warrant prompt reporting on the NRAA website, likewise all National teams matches, to say nothing of issues requiring timely notification like your recent advices on the SSRs - and the SSRs themselves.

If as you say, publication of results necessitates a particular form of reporting, then maybe it is up to the NRAA to manadate the requirements to their agent Ithe individual states) when they outsource their events. Tracking back in history, the QRA website managed to report the 2010 MR championship coherently from the statistics provided at that time when it wasn't listed nationally.

John

Speaking for myself, I think there are lots of things that the "NRAA" would like to do [better] but can't. I believe that the organisation, whatever you think of it, is hopelessly under resourced financially. I think that the current capitation is manifestly inadequate considering the expectations that seem to prevail out there, and its inability to establish much more in the way of income stream. Don't get me started on this.

Without the volunteers (and there are many) there would not _be_ an NRAA (read National Governing body for this sport) and I think we'd all miss it if it ceased to exist. Incidently, without a whole line of volunteers, there would be no World Championship event this year.

Having said that, I think it is high time that a serious look be given to what is expected of the organisation and if more formal arrangements are mandated, that call for (if nothing else) accountability (which is the thust of your comments) then the organisation has to be adequately funded. As few will accept such accountability for free.

This is not a discussion I really want to canvas on this forum beyond what I have said above (and previously). I have made these comments so that readers may have a little insight. These are my views.

Bob may have his own comments.

Geoff.

[ger]

TASRA Match results from yesterday are now available. I will get aggregates up as soon as I can - I have to write code to reformat the data provided to me to make it fit into my system.

http://203.56.36.5/results/data/tasra/2011/results.php

I will put this link up onto the NRAA website as well.

Match results for today (Davis day 2) will be posted shortly.

Geoff.

[M12LRPV]

The issue of managing shooting websites is a tricky one.

I would agree that most are managed and maintained on a volunteer basis.

Many are hosted in environments paid for by the members.

Maintaining a shooting website can take a lot of time and it takes a very broad skilled individual (or extremely persistent individual) to manage or automate much of the content.

Not only does the person managing a shooting website have to understand web design in order to manage general content but they need to be able to manage and manipulate data and databases (scores and results) and reporting skills. Web developer/admin + database developer/admin + report developer is typically not a skill combination found in individuals. To engage such people professionally is expensive (consult fees $1000+ per day).

That is a lot of money if you want to make it paid. That money could be better spent elsewhere. So throwing money at it wont help and will probably make things worse as the maintenance will stop when the money runs out.

Hiring non shooters to maintain web sites is problematic because they don't understand their target audience. So there is an additional time cost involved in communicating what's needed on the site.

Content management systems don't work. They're not written for shooting and the time spent managing the CMS to make it display what you want ends up being more than the time spent managing a more vanilla site.

If people like Geoff were paid for their time maintaining websites the costs would drain the bank account of the club so fast it's not funny.

The more active the site (changes from day to day) the higher the costs. The more static the site the less maintenance and the lower the cost.

So club websites exist mainly because of the work of their volunteers and for that they need to be cut some slack or given a hand.

[AlanF]

Here's my attitude to voluntary work in full bore organisations :

Obviously, we need a substantial number of volunteers across a wide range of skills. Some don't have highly specialised skills but make up for it in the amount of time and energy they put in. Some like Geoff have both. We need to appreciate the contribution of those who do far more than their share (I should also mention monetary and other donations). Otherwise you can't expect them to keep putting in.

While it would be nice to be able to get everyone to do their share of voluntary work, in the real world that just doesn't happen, and the reasons are varied from genuine to otherwise. I'm quite accepting of that - volunteers are volunteers because they are both willing and able to put in. What does really get up my goat is when the shirkers suddenly spring to prominence when there's important decisions to be made. Often these decisions substantially affect only the people who do the work, and the shirkers enjoy the benefits only.

In order to discourage this inequity, what we do at Rosedale is to have most of our range meetings held concurrently with working bees. While the make-up of the meetings are somewhat different from what they would be if held say after shooting on a Saturday, they are definitely stacked in favour of the main workers, and that's fine with me.

Alan

[RMc]

Alan said

In order to discourage this inequity, what we do at Rosedale is to have most of our range meetings held concurrently with working bees. While the make-up of the meetings are somewhat different from what they would be if held say after shooting on a Saturday, they are definitely stacked in favour of the main workers, and that's fine with me.

It was once pointed out to me that the rules that our clubs run under, it is necessary to have meetings at times that members would normally be at the club. Under these rules it is not legal to plan meetings other than times where the club would have their normal business, this does not include working bees etc, as it disadvantages such people who travel, have religous obligations, other family commitments.

It is a good way of a small group to force their opinions onto others however.

It is obvious that this post has been hijacked, can we get back onto topic.

[AlanF]

...it is not legal to plan meetings other than times where the club would have their normal business

Then I guess we should have our working bees at normal business time too?

...It is a good way of a small group to force their opinions onto others however...

As I said above, the small group are the ones who have to do the work to implement the decisions. Why shouldn't they have more say??

...It is obvious that this post has been hijacked, can we get back onto topic...

You've got me there Richard.

see next post...

[AlanF]

To F-Open shooters,

I had another call from Rod Mahon this afternoon. Congrats to Rod and Bob Ped on winning F-Open and F-Std repectively in the leadup. Rod said the weather was beautiful for shooting today. They only had two shoots which finished before midday.

The Queens starts tomorrow - no 300 this year. Rod knows of one other shooter, Wilf Wright who will join them in F-Open. Most will know Wilf as a Match Rifle shooter up till now. Not sure what calibre he'll use.

Back tomorrow night.

Alan