Easter At Glenrowan

[Tony Q]

With the FS/FO question:

Its to difficult to answer, too many variables in the mentality of why someone shoots either discipline. We all know that initial cost for equipment is the same for either, we also know that it’s not the most expensive kit that is guaranteed to win hands down, we also know you do not need to spend large amounts of money to be very competitive in either FS or FO.

All you need is a good tuned outfit and the rest is on the shoulders of the shooter.

But it goes further than this for some, its not just those who have existing gear, either ex TR rifles or Factory rifles in 223 or 308. There are those, believe it or not, who want to do it the hard way with these calibers and if they do equal or eclipse a good FO score they get a boost from that as well... as Lynn has said, its the extra challenge of FS that attracts many of us to it.

Some other thoughts or comments ive encountered ...

There is a fear factor with some when they listen to 900 round burnt out barrels, or that 6BR is ok for the shorts but you need a 284 for the longs … it get too hard for them, even when you tell them about switch barrel systems … its still too hard and too involved for many. For me there are two shooters in my home, both 308’s. If we had a pair of 284’s and over the last 2 ½ years my costs would be up by some $4500.00 in new barrels and additional ammo components.

Now that Mel Q has finished her study’s and started in her career and is now paying her way … … there are still many couples either sharing a rifle, as we did in the beginning, or are not financial enough to have 2 rifles to cater for other family members … for some even an Omark with adequate glass is quite expensive and reloading gear/reloading is not an initial option or desire .. for them FS has good Match factory ammo readily available, this is a big plus for many new shooters I have encountered.

To be the best in either FS or FO you just need the Right equipment, the Right ammo and the Right attitude. For me I love FS but would like to see no restriction on projectile weights so I can get the most out of my chosen caliber.

I have seen some FS shooters seriously contemplate moving over to FO only to become lost in the caliber wilderness, that’s the beauty of FS .. two calibers only and the rest is up to you, even though your doing it harder, some like it that way.

Equipment, calibers, reloading skills, technique and wind reading are all part of the end result … One good thing about either discipline is we are a friendly bunch only to eager to help those who seek help in such things.

If I did it all again .. I would still shoot FS but I would have a 223 and a 308 in stead of 2 308’s. While my daughter would probably disagree, she would soon see the virtues of sharing them between the shorts and the longs.

Sorry for the long post .. its not an easy question to try and sum up in one paragraph.

[AlanF]

If SA shooters are prepared to travel to it then I certainly am. Victorians - here's another chance to show that F-Open is getting serious in our State. If anyone else can make it, let us know now and we can put it to the meeting organisers. Don't leave it till the last minute please, because the SA people need to know soon whether its on.

And there's a few NSW/ACT shooters not too far away from Glenrowan I believe. Any takers?

Alan

[John E]

Tony,
Kay and I have been going to Wangaratta Easter shoot for years, and we will be there again this year. They usually have a barrel warmer on Good Friday, then 3/5/600 yds on Saturday, 3/5/600 Mr on Sunday, accompanied by a "few" reds around the bbq of an evening. The facilities are excellent -- hot showers & toilet facilities & camping on the range.
We would be pleased to have the company of you and your mates.
Regards
John E

[Tony Q]

Thanks John

We are trying to see what we can do to get there.

Tony Z

“The only thing i can say to those that are thinking or have thought of giving FO a go is that an average 6 BR will always out shoot a good FS 308 in the hands of the same shooter at roughly the same cost and barrel life, with less recoil and frustration. Wholesale changes to rules won't get more into FO, but giving it a go and then seeing a whole new world open up will.”

I concur with you on this, but for those who have migrated from FB or are new to the game with an existing 308 it’s a lot of cash to get into open territory. I would estimate to convert any TR or Factory gun would be between $900 and $2000, for most this is not an option (Barrel, dies and maybe Stock and trigger) when they already have a competitive rife in FS.

So why don’t we all embrace the 6BR?... it could be that most are very content with the 308/223, and while they may not be as capable of the even finer accuracy of say a 6mm or 6.5mm they are not shooting for the same group size you need to be competitive. To some there is nothing better than getting a high score in average/poor conditions with what some call an inferior caliber.

FO will grow with calibers like the 6BR, but its probably the New shooter who does not possess a suitable rifle or the FS shooter who is due a barrel change that will increase your numbers.

[Tony Z]

edited 19/4/06

[Tony Q]

I Know Tony, you and I have had conversations before about the merits of the 308.

For those who prefer FS for whatever reason know they are dealt a bad hand with projectile selection but we are all in the same boat.

Shooting on the FB target allows some degree of flexibility due to the size of the 6 ring. The Champ target we use in SA does not and neither will the new ½ moa white dot/FB target.

With regard to the Dyer’s a few of us have started using them with better results? .. to early to say any more as a bit more testing/referencing needs to be done especially at the longs.

Hope you all survived the high winds mate.

[balcom]

Yes, being Easter, we also considered coming over, unfortunately Barry has already said they are not catering to Open.

Lynn

Lynn,
I thought you shot FSTD, is there a war going on down south
PeterH

[Lynn Otto]

Hi Peter

Absolutely I do, Std is 1st and foremost my poison or vice of choice, however...

The comment you refer to was made for two reason, firstly the two men of my house shoot Open and I'm not driving that distance on my own, nor would I consider going without them. Secondly, for some months now I have been shooting Open with a 6BR while my new rifle is being built. It is now kinda finished and I will be shooting Std with it at Glenrowan, although as I have said elswhere, it will be as an untried and unload tested rifle, should be interesting. Fortunately, I have the utmost faith that Trevor will have given me a load that will at least hit the target.

I am a little puzzled by your reference to a "war going on down south", could you please explain, I must be having a female moment.

[balcom]

[quote="Lynn Otto"]Hi Peter

Absolutely I do, Std is 1st and foremost my poison or vice of choice, however...

The comment you refer to was made for two reason, firstly the two men of my house shoot Open and I'm not driving that distance on my own, nor would I consider going without them. Secondly, for some months now I have been shooting Open with a 6BR while my new rifle is being built. It is now kinda finished and I will be shooting Std with it at Glenrowan, although as I have said elswhere, it will be as an untried and unload tested rifle, should be interesting. Fortunately, I have the utmost faith that Trevor will have given me a load that will at least hit the target.

I am a little puzzled by your reference to a "war going on down south", could you please explain, I must be having a female moment. [/quote
Hi lynn, 1st i like your choice with a 223, when i shoot std i use a LMB action with a true flight barrel and it shoots very well, when i feel like it i shoot open with a 260rem but only every now & then, my load for 223 is 25.5 x 2208 with CCI primers & Rem cases, seems to work, good luck at Glenrowan, i'm off to a 2 day shoot as well.
The mention of war was made after reading a lot of thread between people down sth, dont make to much out of it.
PedterH

[Lynn Otto]

Peter

Unfortunately, rifles, like some people, myself included, are all individual and the load that worked so well in my old 223, which was the sweetest little peice of equipment I've ever used, does not suit my new 223. With time being a precious comodity in our house it may take a while to figure out just what this new one wants to perform at its best, but we'll get there.

Good luck for your weekends shoot.

Lynn

[agro]

After what happened this weekend at Glenrowan, Right now l am annoyed as #$!%.
After seeing on the website that there was a possibility that F open may be run and was still in negotation. l purposely waited until the Thursday night before the comp. to contact the Glenrowan secretary who told me that it was being run.
I fronted up on the Saturday morning to register and was told by a woman by the name of "Joyce" that it was called off by Barry Davies as they could not get eight shooters. She also told me that he had rung around. Well as an F class delegate at Bendigo, l can tell you that l was not contacted.
Barry,
What has happened between Thursday night and Saturday morning?
Who did you ring?
As a sanctioned VRA meet, where in the rules does it stipulate that they must be eight competitors?
Is the same rule applied to the other disciplines?

[VickiMcc]

WEM check PM's

[Lynn Otto]

Wem

This was unfortunate and obviously a sad miscommunication, Barry had arranged for Open to be included and Alan had tried to raise some interest from the Open people but without success. Perhaps more communication among the Open people in Vic could see some organised particpation happening at selected events. This would make it more enjoyable for the shooters and financially viable for the clubs. We would have liked to see Open happen (since two of us normally shoot Open) but there needs to be more support from the shooters themselves if they want to keep this class of shooting alive.

This is purely my view from an outside perspective of the situation. I am not conversant with the background of Victorian F Class, but think it would be sad to see F Std and Open diverge down two different roads as seems to be happening. It is so much more enjoyable when everyone works (and plays) together. I would like to see this sport work for everyone regardless of which class a person chooses to compete in.

Lynn

[VickiMcc]

Lynn
I am almost certain if clubs advertise they are catering for F Open then they will get some support, but they must advertise beforehand, not a week or so in advance. Not everyone can drop everything to attend at the last minute. If advertised it should not be dropped at the last minute either. If not many attend then alter prize list to suit, no problem with that, but the clubs have to put on reasonable trophies to attract competitors.
By the way do you know how many trophies were available for F Std A & B grade

Paul

[Lynn Otto]

Paul

I don't know what is normal in Vic but there was a range and daily aggregate trophy available for both A and B, plus badges. I do know that they were prepared to do likewise for Open.

From my perspective as someone who has been involved in organising and sorting the financing of events, it is important for it to be financially viable. I don't disagree with what you have said about the the advertising of a class but at the same time I have seen clubs be burned by offering a class and have only one person turn up. It needs to be a two way street of support. In the case of Glenrowan the club didn't advertise at the last minute, the attempt to include Open was made by some individuals to which the club agreed if a reasonable number of shooters could be found to attend, this unfortunately was not possible. The club had at least done their best to accomodate us.

As I said, if the shooters could organise among themselves to attend certain events and even perhaps notify the organisers of expected attedance numbers there may be a greater level of rapport and support between the two groups. I believe we need to be prepared to put the work in to help ourselves if we expect to see a positive outcome for our futures.

Just my thoughts.
Lynn