Lapua .284 brass life

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:28 am

Hi All,

I've still been shooting my loose pocket brass with no signs of leakage. Its pretty interesting to see how loose they can actually get without problems. I am watching them carefully though.

I've been thinking of trying to have some jaws made up to suit an interchangable jaw Toledo style electrical terminal crimper similar to the one in the below link.

http://www.roddingroundtable.com/forums ... hp?id=1852

Crimping webbing and rims by .002" would be ideal. May need to be followed up by a pocket reamer if the tools not prcise enough.

Has anyone heard of such a tool yet?

aaronraad · Post by **aaronraad** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:45 am

Not sure how valid your idea is and whether it can not be achived with a small base die instead?

Heavy duty: http://www.permaswage.com/products-and-services/permanents/permaswage-system.html

Light duty: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/604518/rcbs-case-trimmer-collet-3

Getting Closer: http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Collet-and-Chuck-Sets

Regardless of what you use you need to get the case back out so a modified Simplex vice type die might be the go with a punch http://westernfirearms.com.au/images/Vice_type_die.jpg...and remember if you do get the brass to plastically deform you have to control everything in the area (e.g. so flash-hole doesn't close up etc). This is probably why the case heading process takes place before shoulder/neck formation so they get a full-length punch down there to support the web and wall section?

Good luck!

ecomeat · Post by **ecomeat** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:35 pm

DenisA wrote:Hi All,

I've still been shooting my loose pocket brass with no signs of leakage. Its pretty interesting to see how loose they can actually get without problems. I am watching them carefully though.t

Denis
A benchrester I know told me he has seated primers into PPC cases, having to use a tissue paper "shim" to hold the primers in place, (without the tissue paper the primers would have fallen straight out of the primer pocket) without any issues. In a quality target action, it seems that you can (safely ?") get away with a fair bit with a little PPC case !! I'd like to watch you try it with your 284 before I tried it with mine :lol:

Tony

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:53 pm

ecomeat wrote:
DenisA wrote:Hi All,

I've still been shooting my loose pocket brass with no signs of leakage. Its pretty interesting to see how loose they can actually get without problems. I am watching them carefully though.t

Denis
A benchrester I know told me he has seated primers into PPC cases, having to use a tissue paper "shim" to hold the primers in place, (without the tissue paper the primers would have fallen straight out of the primer pocket) without any issues. In a quality target action, it seems that you can (safely ?") get away with a fair bit with a little PPC case !! I'd like to watch you try it with your 284 before I tried it with mine
Tony

lol..... im not trying tissue paper.

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:59 pm

It was mentioned on another site that (cut down?) .45ACP sizing dies have been used in conjunction with a custom head to fit on the ram of a press to constrict the base of cases by pushing them right through.

I'm not inclined to fart round with leaky cases, so I didn't pursue whether it was a special die with a particular dimension or standard.

aaronraad · Post by **aaronraad** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:10 pm

50BMG shooters have been known to use threaded brass inserts to subtitue the in a shotgun primer:

"Primers
Cases can either use .50 BMG primers, or a more economical option is to convert them to use 209 shotgun primers. In some cases a stronger hammer spring must be used for the harder BMG primers... depends on the shotgun.

Primer conversion to 209 primers is achieved by using a 3/8" threaded insert made from brass tubing (or rod) that is reamed to accept the primer. The BMG primer is removed and the flash hole drilled out. The hole is threaded with a 3/8 tap to accommodate the primer insert. Insert is secured in place with either loctite or low-heat solder."

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/shotguns/shotguns.htm

At least with the tissue paper on hand you can wipe away the your tears of pain and the tears of laughter from others vacating the area.

RDavies · Post by **RDavies** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:52 pm

I have having problems with my primers falling out and jamming inside the action. This is not too much of a problem, just reach in and pull each primer out each shot, but the gas leakage has been eating out my bolt face. Cases extract nice and easy (not a very hot load) but primers fall out straight away after firing when they seated OK.

Post by **AlanF** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:35 pm

RDavies wrote:...Cases extract nice and easy (not a very hot load) but primers fall out straight away after firing when they seated OK.

Is this just with a single batch of cases Rod? If not, then something strange must be going on. Is it dud batch of primers? Is your bolt-face true? I've had a lot of different batches of 6.5-284 Lapua brass, and have never actually had a primer fall out, regardless of how stiff the load. Like everyone else I've found that the primer pocket is the Achilles heel of this case when trying to push 7mm 180s over about 2900, but nothing like what you're experiencing.

Alan

RAVEN · Post by **RAVEN** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:39 pm

More info please rod

what powder :?:

what charge :?:

what pill

are these new cases :?:

RB:)

RDavies · Post by **RDavies** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:01 pm

This was with my usual load of 53gns 2209 with 180gn hybrids jammed .020". In a Shehane. In a prize shoot last week with these cases on their first shot AFTER fire forming. The first 7 shots were all jammed .020" and all lost the primers, but ejected very easily. The next 5 were only jammed .015" and didn't lose the primers but they (CCI BR2) were loose. Problem is the .020" jammed ones shot great. I want to get a tougher lot of cases and keep the same load. I worked up to this load with the same batch of brass I have been using in a few barrels with no problem, but the new brass won't take it. It is likely just a very soft batch as I have run hotter before.
BTW, the primers I picked out of the action showed NO signs of pressure, rounded edges, No cratering.

bartman007 · Post by **bartman007** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:04 pm

Well it seems that some of you at the pointy end require a little advice.

There is a product that has been around in the engineering world for many decades, and it is called LOCTITE.

They have a range that should cover most shooter's requirements.

1. If you've got really loose pockets (of the trouser kind), then maybe you can simply purchase new brass.

2. Loctite 609 - This product has a quick curing time. When reloading between ranges.

3. Loctite 380 - This product is rubber toughened, which should provide some vibration dampening. When travelling long distance.

4. Loctite 638 - High strength product. For those magnum primer pockets.

5. Loctite 641 - Great for press fits. For those pockets that require a little TLC.

Now with all reloading advice, start with just a little and work up :wink:

Disclaimer: I have never used this product on primer pockets, as my pockets are tight enough

If anyone is crazy (inquisitive) enough to try it, let me know how it goes. If it works well you can send me a few dollars for the advice. Otherwise, shhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Cameron Mc · Post by **Cameron Mc** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:15 pm

ecomeat wrote:
DenisA wrote:Hi All,

A benchrester I know told me he has seated primers into PPC cases, having to use a tissue paper "shim" to hold the primers in place, (without the tissue paper the primers would have fallen straight out of the primer pocket) without any issues. In a quality target action, it seems that you can (safely ?") get away with a fair bit with a little PPC case !! I'd like to watch you try it with your 284 before I tried it with mine
Tony

That would have been in the old days when the BR guys only had the 220 Russian case to work with. The head was soft and all sorts of remedies were tried to keep the pockets tight.
Then along came Lapua which can be hammered in 6 ppc and just like 6br.
The 284 is really a magnum case with 308 head size.

Cam

RDavies · Post by **RDavies** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:15 pm

I will be switching to slower powders such as 2213sc or N165 at least for the first few firings with the new batch of brass. I should be able to keep reasonable velocities with lower pressure than with the usual 2209 load. Maybe the velocity spread might not be quite as good as I,m used to, who knows?
Only thing stopping me from doing this so far is the lack of ANY powders in NSW gunshops these days.

Post by **AlanF** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:39 pm

RDavies wrote:I will be switching to slower powders such as 2213sc or N165 at least for the first few firings with the new batch of brass. I should be able to keep reasonable velocities with lower pressure than with the usual 2209 load. Maybe the velocity spread might not be quite as good as I,m used to, who knows?
Only thing stopping me from doing this so far is the lack of ANY powders in NSW gunshops these days.

Rod,

I did some testing of different powders and found that 2209 was worse than N165 for primer pockets. I also found that RL17 was no better than N165 in that respect, despite the claims that have been made for it.

Perhaps as you say its a combination of faster powder and a batch of softer brass. Are you chronographing? Is it possible that you have a hot batch of 2209? Just because there's no extraction problem doesn't mean pressures are low. I don't get extraction problems with loose primers either.

And here's another possibility - if you have a highly polished chamber, maybe the case isn't gripping and is hammering back onto the boltface, in the same manner as with wet cases :-k

. Now that WILL open up the primer pockets.

Alan

RDavies · Post by **RDavies** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:56 pm

Yes, I had chronographed loads not long before and was around 2820 fps. I suspect that the velocity had likely gone up due to the usual new barrel, 150 round velocity jump. I have been using the same batch of powder for the last 2 years in previous barrels.
I normally use the PMC primers which are slightly bigger, but was saving them until I had got a load pretty much dialed in and velocity jump out of the way. Even so, I would not have expected the BR2s to be so loose.

Lapua .284 brass life

Primer pockets