Proposal to Limit F/TR Projectiles to 156 Grains

[Gyro]

Correct Tomcat, massive challenges and I think what most knockers of the heavy projectiles say is it has become something of an "equipment race" to get the right gear to run the big bullets ? Hence they say FTR has gotten a long way from where it started. Many say this, and whether it is 'good' for the class is another story. THIS POINT is what should be discussed.

[Pommy Chris]

I agree with Tim,

Investments I have made with 2 rifles chambered for heavy bullets plus all the precision tooling is enormous, yes my choice but inline with current rules of competition, also the hours of training to adapt skills required from previous Fstd 155 pills shooting, if I had to reinvest yet again I would contemplate doing something else .

I agree with Tim too, I have invested a LOT of money on barrels and gear to shoot 215's, what will I do with a bundle of 1 in 10 barrels? I have been developing not just for Canada, but with South Africa in mind. Some barrels were to be for next time as we all work years ahead, what now I need to start again and what about all the money I have invested with barrels of the wrong twist and reamed out for 200's 215?
Re barrel wear etc my first one in 10 barrel had 1600 rounds on it now it has shot 215's from the start at similar to Tim's velocities. My borescope arrived yesterday and I checked that barrel last night it shows little wear at all. The brass used is still the original brass which has been shot over 10 times and the barrel is still a tacking.
This sort of rule change is too drastic too late making thousands of dollars of our gear useless. I really dont want to start all over again..
Chris

[Pommy Chris]

Correct Tomcat, massive challenges and I think what most knockers of the heavy projectiles say is it has become something of an "equipment race" to get the right gear to run the big bullets ? Hence they say FTR has gotten a long way from where it started. Many say this, and whether it is 'good' for the class is another story. THIS POINT is what should be discussed.

Dont really agree heavy projectiles wont make a person win you need to still read the wind and heavies make controlling the rifle harder. Steve Laz won a Queens against people using heavies and won with 155's. If a person can shoot they will win whatever they are using.
Chris

[Pommy Chris]

Alan, may I suggest a poll for this topic would be very good here....

What is most important is a poll of those who shoot it not everyone. This question should be asked to those it affects..
Chris

[AlanF]

What is most important is a poll of those who shoot it not everyone. This question should be asked to those it affects..
Chris

Chris,

There is a poll HERE and it attempts to do what you suggest. However it is possible that some will interpret being "directly affected" differently from being a regular F/TR competitor.

[Gyro]

I totally agree Chris : the same top shooters will win because they have a good 'package'. I went to the heavies initially because I couldn't read the wind. But that generates big challenges with the setup and the gun handling. It is NOT an easy option. After 4 seasons of shooting I STARTED to get my head around the wind. Now I wouldn't do the heavy bullets. But of course people get heavily involved in the required gear so right or wrong they want the status quo.

[Wakey7]

Just my thoughts but if every FTR shooter was to use the 156 limited projectiles would not the NRAA have more control than they do now over Projectile purchasing by FTR shooters and thus the amount of money they receive from the members.

[Pommy Chris]

What is most important is a poll of those who shoot it not everyone. This question should be asked to those it affects..
Chris

Chris,

There is a poll HERE and it attempts to do what you suggest. However it is possible that some will interpret being "directly affected" differently from being a regular F/TR competitor.

That's, my thoughts ie who is doing the voting and why? I really doubt many who are taking FTR seriously, shooting it and who invested time and money into gear would want a change now. Most people seem to be using FTR reamers for example which would render barrels useless if a 156 grain limit were introduced. I and many others have multiple barrels reamed for 200's and above many which cant be rechambered either (my medium Palma's). Rechamber aside they are all 1 in 10 specifically for heavier projectiles.
When is this all going to be resolved, I was just about to buy a couple more barrels for example, no way can I do that now until we know what is going on?
Chris

[RJNEILSEN]

I am new to FTR. Transitioning from TR. I have decided to do it right and build a new FTR rig from scratch. Bits are incoming from all over the globe as we speak. Personally I think the weight restriction completely makes sense and should have been in the rules from day one (more Nascar and less formula one). However, given the time and money invested by god knows how many people around the world, I would hope this proposed rule change fails. We want to promote inclusion in this discipline, and changing major equipment rules like this does nothing for this goal.

Cheers,
Ryan.

FWIW my new barrel is being chambered for 155s. These are what I know how to shoot. Not sure if the big pills are worth it for me just yet.

[Tim L]

FWIW Ryan the original concept for Fclass WAS 155s. Just chuck a scope on your TR and rest it on something.
Since then it evolved into open calibre for F O and any 308 off a bipod for FTR.
I really don't see an issue with that. The last 4 queens I've been to are ACT - won with a 155. SA won with a 215, NQRA won with a 185 and Nationals won with a 200.
You've picked 155 Ryan, and all the best with them they are plenty capable projectiles. You picked what you know which makes all the sence in the world.

[Gyro]

Well said lads ! The horse has probably bolted re a smooth rule change now. And anyway it's still a good Class I say despite what many say. It's mostly gotten complicated and more "gear centric" to quote Litz. Sure it can cost more but hey seems to me many of us have no problem finding the money for the right toys. And perhaps more people need to question thier own motives re wanting to rule against the big bullets because whatever route one takes I reckon the top shooters earn thier place mostly through hard work and dedication. Regards Rob Kerridge.

[johnk]

What may have been overlooked by all is that FS shooters might well have as much interest in this question as F/TR shooters. The former discipline occurred because Australian shooters were against the concept of an unlimited bullet weight when ICFRA presented the proposal & preferred to continue the Australian/Canadian TR equivalent bullet weight concept.

Should it be decided to limit bullet weight, then inevitably FS will wane, albeit it would be a lesser cost impost on those shooters than it might be for F/TR shooters.

[Tim L]

I don't get this cost argument at all.
Action - same
Scope - same
Stock - same
Barrel - same
Chambering - same
Bipod - Homemade -$750 although anyone could blow that out to over $1000 if they want
Pedestal - Homemade - $2200
The ONLY cost difference are the bullets someone choses to shoot but that exists with the current choice within 155's as well.

The whole sport has become "gear centric" $1600 annealing machines. $2000 + pedestal rests. $2000 scales. Powder dispensing machines. Bullet pointing, Bushing dies. Neck turning. Seating pressure measurement. Case prep tools. That list is endless.

A "level playing field" is presented by "OFFERING" the same options to shooters competing against one another. How a shooter determines which option they go for is all part of the competition.
I guarantee that even if the rules were changed to say only unmodified Winchester 155gn factory produced ammo is to be used, people would STILL go out and buy something they perceived would give an advantage. Be that a different chamber, different barrel, barrel tuner, stock,,,, I dare say someone would get a good result by licking their bullets once and from then on everyone would lick their bullets until someone turned up at the mound with a bloody Auspost stamp sponge full of spit!!!

[jasmay]

I dare say someone would get a good result by licking their bullets once and from then on everyone would lick their bullets until someone turned up at the mound with a bloody Auspost stamp sponge full of spit!!!

Bugger me I needed a good Laugh, thanks Tim, please put more on my back order list for Canada Bwhehehewwwaaaaaaahahahaha

[bsouthernau]

Bugger me ......

Jason, are you suggesting we put our bullets up our BACKSIDES before shooting??