I think you need to re read my post, and im not sure you understand barrel harmonics as well as you preach... One must think why you need to dampen/shift/alter the harmonics with orings to begin with.....
Just a thought
cheers
I cant see anything wrong with this post, i call a spade a spade... And its my opinion that the use of orings are just bandaids to a rifle that is setup incorrectly (has an underlining pressure/stress point)... This problem could be something as simple as a picatinny rail screw touching a bolt body/lug or barrel tenon thread (eg.only)... But i suppose if you put enough bandaids on you might stop the bleeding..
Cheers
Last edited by Wal86 on Sun May 13, 2018 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
actually all this tuner stuff raised the subject is gene beggs' skeleton rifles. no forend, but a plate bolted ot otherwise attatched to the barrel to ride the bag. this plate could be moved forward or back to tune. no stock would allow more weight elsewhere. you would really need to have that plate on the bag the same each time, but with it up near the muzzle gun balance would be a non issue. keep safe, bruce.
black powder shooters studybarrel tuning in some interesting ways. one is to hit the barrel with a plastic hammer and see what patterns form in the flour that has been sprinkled on it, this shows nodes and antinodes quite clearly, but only really works with barrels that have flats for obvious reasons the other is to rest the barrel on something, hit it, and listen along it with a stethoscope, trying different resting positions. this seeks to find an antinde to rest the muzzle end of the barrel on. keep safe, bruce.
Forgive my ignorance, and I'm not being a smart-ass, but isn't a tuner doing the same thing as the o rings? Just changing harmonics to create better groups? Scott.
I think you need to re read my post, and im not sure you understand barrel harmonics as well as you preach... One must think why you need to dampen/shift/alter the harmonics with orings to begin with.....
Just a thought
cheers
I cant see anything wrong with this post, i call a spade a spade... And its my opinion that the use of orings are just bandaids to a rifle that is setup incorrectly (has an underlining pressure/stress point)... This problem could be something as simple as a picatinny rail screw touching a bolt body/lug or barrel tenon thread (eg.only)... But i suppose if you put enough bandaids on you might stop the bleeding..
Cheers
You will probably find that rubber rings help with "headspace" !!!! Keith H.
scott/r wrote:Forgive my ignorance, and I'm not being a smart-ass, but isn't a tuner doing the same thing as the o rings? Just changing harmonics to create better groups? Scott.
The science for the o rings is probably up there with Astrology Scott. Can't hurt to try anyways can it ?
Bruce - I use tuners - I don't have a whole bunch of scientific analysis though. Their proven to alter POI, Group size and shape. I have a bunch of testing I would like to do to see if they can shortcut the load dev process but not done so yet. Right now I do the traditional thing and then if I want smaller I turn the tuner. The main thing I like about a tuner is it gives me options. I can turn it or not! Dan hardy Barrel has shot .4 moa vertical at 1000 on several occasions under FTR comp conditions with tuner on 0 so I haven't bothered. Previous barrel I got real stuck so I turned it. That load hammered.
I'm ready to move on from this thread but was having a read of the above link so thought I'd throw it in here.
Be easy to throw some more bricks on my way out but ...........
I'm currently playing with a fixed non-adjustable devise that aims at 'arresting' system vibrations before they propagate. I've screwed onto my F Open gun a still-good FTR barrel ( that beat ALL except F-Open shooter Bop P from Oz at our 2017 Nationals Queens shoot ) to use for some pre-season testing and as I don't yet have the 7mm barrel I will use for next season. Anyways this device, that is not tooooo crazy looking, calms the gun down a LOT during recoil so who knows it may yet be a worthwhile addition. One things for bloody sure is it's something different to the " putting something on the barrel to tame it" method. Regards Rob K.
Sounds like one of my early jobs John, given the dimensions based on the harmonic length of the barrel and probable calibre, and Obermeyer's internal bloop tube dimensions which I put out some years ago and certainly used by Shadetree tuners. I currently run a similar back bore on my SAUM, but to be honest tuners come in all shapes and sizes and as they say calculus was not necessarily Newtons. Its great others can build and share ideas. It benefits the sport.
Note the amount of rubber damping on left hand tuners. Guess what Mike Ezel fills his tuner with?
Great Barrel Tuners.jpg
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Last edited by williada on Tue May 15, 2018 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This thread came from an innocent question from Bruce who seemingly was just curious about whether a tuner would get him shooting better. It's clearly been of interest to many.
I write this for the less experienced shooter : the barrel and how it behaves during the approximately 2 milliseconds of barrel time while the projectile gets clear of the barrel does NOT exist in isolation. LOTS of other factors come into the reasons why the projectile travels to where it does. You can buy THE most expensive scope that allows u to aim and see with great detail but that absolutely does not mean the projectile will go where u wish it to !!!
I would suggest the TOP shooters have a lot of knowledge and experience about what matters most re consistent top level shooting. And they go through massive preparation to make sure everything is right, or at least everything they can control.
The seperate components of the gun and the way it is set up matters. The way the barrel is chambered matters. The way the rests are packed and set up matters. The way u 'drive ' the gun matters i.e. our body position and angle. Try different body angles. Try different lengths of pull settings as that effects where and how you are positioned relative to the gun. I've been shooting for a few years now with a little angled cushion/squab under my chest as it helps greatly with my comfort plus I can easily rock around on it to make subtle body position changes. I'm right handed and my RH elbow is on a little squab as that too helps with comfort. I wear a little stretchy elastic elbow pad on my left elbow so gravel or rough grass doesn't screw with my concentration.
All the above might sound like small stuff but the sum help/advantage of having all these boxes ticked off is massive and is the reason why I have a real problem with people basically implying a tuner will help Shooter A shoot better. Maybe it will but ya need to look at the whole system !!!
Rob u are right !! Tuner or harmonics mods are no magic bullet ! They may not even improve a highly tuned naked barrel ! I will say the effects can benign to wow ! There is one thing that is for sure . It doesn’t eliminate the hard work out in the paddock testing and time spent away from family!! Ps also u have won at Trentham twice , so u must know a little about what your doing lol!
I have been reading this thread with great interest and I know I don't know how to tune a rifle without a tuner (Gyro I dont know what a E value is for a stock). If those that know this information wouldn't mind it would be greatly appreciated if you could PM me some information or a link to some reading I will soak it all up. I know this information is not available from within my current mentors that have helped immensely. Passing it on is the only way we can foster new shooters and keep moving forward.
GSells wrote:Rob u are right !! Tuner or harmonics mods are no magic bullet ! They may not even improve a highly tuned naked barrel ! I will say the effects can benign to wow ! There is one thing that is for sure . It doesn’t eliminate the hard work out in the paddock testing and time spent away from family!! Ps also u have won at Trentham twice , so u must know a little about what your doing lol!
Cheers Graham, you'll go far !
Y'all gotta come back some time for another crack. Regards Rob Kerridge.
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