Its Time For A .224-90gr Bullet Limit In TR And F-Standard

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:24 pm

Canada have just recently lifted the 81gr bullet limit to 91gr in both TR and F-Class.

Now with the introduction of so many new high BC 155gr .308 projectiles the latest of which being the brand new Sierra Palma MatchKing (BC=0.504) its time to allow a higher BC .224 bullet.

The only option available to compete with such high BC .308 bullets is to allow the move up to 90gr VLD type .224 bullet. Even with the move to these heavier bullets (BC=0.500+) the 223R will be limited to velocities of around 2900fps because of the case limitations.

If we dont allow this increase in bullet weight and hence higher BC bullets then this soft recoiling calibre will be lost to us for use in competition. Who will want to disadvantage themselves by shooting low BC bullets against high BC bullets.

Nothing ever stays the same and target shooting is no exception but when changes are made to advantage one calibre over another that compete side by side against each other, then something must be done to even up the disadvantage. In this case the 90gr VLD type bullets even shot at lower velocities of around 2900fps would help dramatically.

What do you think?

Ian

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:47 pm

good idea ian.
they could also include the 80 berger.
bruce.

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:34 pm

bruce moulds wrote:good idea ian.
they could also include the 80 berger.
bruce.

The 80gr Berger VLD only has a BC = 0.445 which makes it not as good as the current 80gr Amax option. The 80gr Amax has a BC = 0.452 (Bryan Litz) and is the current pick from NRAA approved bullets.

We must go to the 90gr VLD bullets to maintain our equality with the current crop of 308 NRAA approved bullets. A 90gr Berger VLD has a BC = 0.551 and a Sierra 90gr MK has a BC = 0.501. The Sierra bullet has a problem with velocities above 2650fps so would not be a viable option.

I have this quote from Duane Siercks (Sierra BulletSmith)...

We developed the bullet for the 223 with a max velocity of around 2650 fps. We recommend not exceeding that velocity by much. Pointing might help, but we have not tested that as yet. Thanks

The Berger 90gr VLDs shot at the case limited, lower velocity of 2900fps is the best option at leveling the playing field with the 308s shot at 2950-3000fps.

Ian

Matt P · Post by **Matt P** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:07 pm

Ian
I cannot see you getting 2900 fps "SAFELY" in a 223 case, yes it can probably be done but case life would be shortened. I cannot get much over 2920 in a 7 twist 30" barrel so 2900 with the 90 would be a stretch.

Matt P

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:53 pm

Matt P wrote:Ian
I cannot see you getting 2900 fps "SAFELY" in a 223 case, yes it can probably be done but case life would be shortened. I cannot get much over 2920 in a 7 twist 30" barrel so 2900 with the 90 would be a stretch.

Matt P

I agree that 2900fps is at the top end of possible velocity but its being done in Canada by Jerry Tierney. Jerry is currently showing whats possible with a 223R and 80/90gr bullets. Register at the provided website link for the Forums at http://www.usrifleteams.com/ to find out more.

I'm sure most of us could achieve 2880fps using AR2208 with a 30" barrel (7 twist) and a suitable chamber for the long 90gr VLD bullets. The advantage of a high BC is negated slightly with the lower velocity but do check with a ballistics calculator to see if it works for you.

Use the online JBM ballistics calculator to compare the trajectory of the 80-90gr bullets and check the stability factor while your there.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/calculatio ... ions.shtml

Ian

Paul Janzso · Post by **Paul Janzso** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:38 am

Mat, in your post you said you were strugling to get 2,920 fps, with what bullet weight are you strugling with?

Ian, now you let the cat amongst the pigeons. I have just had a new KRIEGER 1:8 barrel profesionally fitted and chambered with your reamer, (thankyou) and it is humming with A Max 80gner's ( as you know from last Saturdays comp ). Now I will have to order another barrel, KRIEGER 1:7 to get in before the rush when the 90gn projectiles are aproved.

That new KRIEGER barrel ran in very fast and I came up with a very accurate load, with the powder (2206) I had on hand for the Team Match against Mt Barker on Saturday. Now I will sort a new load with 2208 and the A Max's.

Cheers
Paul

PS , Ian you will have a chance with your team next year at 600m

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:02 pm

Paul, your new 223R is shooting extremely well with the 80gr Amax I think you said you are at approx 3000fps. I hate to think how much better it can become but you will soon find out with the AR2208. I'm using the 8 twist with the 80gr Amax's and the stability factor is Sg = 1.2 which is a little below Litz's 1.4 recommendation.

I'm still waiting for my 7 twist barrel barrel to turn up but thats going to become a 223AI and shoot the 90gr Berger VLDs in F-Open. Like you, if the 90gr bullets are approved I too will need a new barrel to shoot the straight 223R in F-Std comps.

Ian

Chopper · Post by **Chopper** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:35 pm

You would think they would approve a safer case to go with the 90g but then thats what FO is for, 90 gners in the 223 case really will need some care , 2 tenths of a grain over the max load dont give much warning about pressure they simply blow the ar;; out of the case , military brass :shock:

well look out, Chop.

Ken Melgaard · Post by **Ken Melgaard** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:01 pm

If you want a higher BC 80-90 grain VLD, Copperhead Bullets will have one out shortly, just need the time to make few to test. Then it's a matter of them being accepted/adopted by the NRAA!!!!! for use in STD F Class & TR.

Cheers
Ken
www.copperheadbullets.com

PS The info on the 22 cal. 80 grains are not on the web site yet

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:04 am

I look forward to seeing long range CopperHead .224 VLD bullets being available in the 80 - 90gr range.

Maybe the NRAA should adopt the Canadian concept of a weight limit (91gr) for the 223R cartridge. This would help in gaining back some of the ground we have lost to the high BC 308 155gr bullets.

Ian

Paul Janzso · Post by **Paul Janzso** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:27 am

Hi Ken

I will gladly offer to test your 80gn VLD's, as I'm sure a few other F Class shooters you know would like to.

Any news on the 180gn , 7mm and 210gn, 30cal bullets?

Cheers
Paul

10FPAT · Post by **10FPAT** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:14 am

So you have the .223 going PJ! Will be interested to see it in action next month if you shoot it at the 300y match.

Bill

Paul Janzso · Post by **Paul Janzso** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:11 pm

Hi Bill

I only run it in and chanced on a good load using 2206 which I had on hand. I scored 110 out of 120 at 500m shooting in the team's match against Mt. Barker last Saturday.
I want to work up a load with 2208. I will be at the bench tonight and maybe jcinsa will let me test the load on Saturday after MBRC's xmass shoot.

Cheers
Paul

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:01 pm

Paul,

From what I hear, you might try 06H as well.

John

Paul Janzso · Post by **Paul Janzso** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm

Hi John

I will see how the 2208 goes, as I have just purchased 1kg of 08.

I will keep you informed.

Cheers
Paul