80 Grain AMax 223

[richmac]

Hi All
I see that they are allowing the new Dyer projectiles to be used for the South Australian Queens.
I am a littled peeved that they have not allowed us 556 shooters to step up also and be allowed to use the AMax 80 grn 223 projectiles for the S.A Queens also.
The Amax 80 grn projectile has been around for a while and I think that I do not wish to open a can of worms ,,,,BUT I think the National Rifle Association are treating the Rat Gun Brigade as second rate shooters as they also should also be on a equal footing in the competition.We all pay the same entry fee.
Some shooters because of bad necks and bad backs etc, can only use this caliber so they can still be competitive and still be active in the sport.
Whats your thoughts on this matter,do you think we are getting a fair go
Cheers Rich

[Matt P]

Rich
Send an e-mail to the NRAA and your state ass, if you say nothing thats what will be done.
The ACT have approved the use of 80 Amax at their Queens.

Matt P

[richmac]

Hi Matt
Thanks for the heads up on this.
I was not aware of the ACT queens letting 80 Amax being used.
I hope quite a few more shooters stand up and be counted on this matter.
I think the National Rifle association is having a SLACK ATTACK.
They have had enough time to settle this matter I feel
Rich

[ozfarm]

are there any advantages in using the A-max vs sierra 80gn???

[Malcolm Hill]

ozfarm
Three advantages that I know. They are considerably cheaper,they have a better B.C. than the Sierra to get a little closer to the new 155 Dyer and they dont seem to suffer from the odd shot out of a group that you get with the Sierra from time to time.
Regards Malcolm.

[richmac]

Hi Mal
Good to see that you also agree that they are a better projectile to upgrade to.
This will help the 223 shooters to try and be on even par with the Dyer new 155 grainers.
Although I must confess that at the No.1 OPM a few weeks back Adrian Hobbs made the Sierra 80 grainers sing when he shot a 50.7 at 500 metres and followed up with a 50.9 ant 800 mtrs.This gave him the meeting at lower light which is a tricky range at the best of times.
The man is special and the ability he has is extra special I think.
The 90 grain projectiles is still a bit of a mystery as I have heard conflicting reports about them and a 6 and a half twist barrel is what you need to drive them.
Cheers Rich

[littlebang556]

I say let them use their new Dyer 155's. The 80 Sierra is an awesome projectile and the overall difference is bugger all in the grand scheme of things. If we continue to think they have a far better projectile they will perform far better. All part of the mental training. Don't let yourself be beaten before you fire a shot.
Take the time to set the little Rat up properly (ladder test/s) and continue to watch them all cry when you beat them.

think positive.....shoot positive......& enjoy.

Having said all that.....I dare say that the leopards will change their spots one day and allow a wider choice for 5.56 NATO

Cheers all

Rob Alman

[richmac]

Rob
Have u trialed the Amex 80 grainers????
If you have not, how can U say thats its all in your mind.
I am a believer of a fair go for all shooters on a even plain.
I also have shot a 50.10 with the Sierras 80 grain pills.(How many times does that happen)
But now the new pills from Dyer have arrived that have had a huge succsess,I think new technoligy speaks for itself as the scores that they produced overseas when they were trialed were far way above the Sierra 80 grainers.
Think positive and move forward
Regards Rich

[Woody_rod]

I am really looking forward to trying both the new Dyer, and the Amax to see how they go. Obvously, I cant comment on how they perform.

Richmac, what people were shooting the new projectiles overseas? If they are top flight shooters, then it might not be a fair comparison.

[littlebang556]

What I was basically saying was, keep shooting with the sierra's as per SSR's and get on with the job physically and mentally...when and if something else is added to the rules all well and good. It will give us a CHOICE as is the case with 7.62 and eliminate any possibility of an unfair advantage....I would go as far as to say that the advantage would then be on the other foot.

If I had to have a dummy spit I would aim it at the NRAA instead of my own inabilities but that will get me nowhere.

The Sierra 80 grainers ARE an excellent choice and allowed me to score 100.20 (all sighters converted) at 600y in TR competition (I will blow my own trumpet here and say I know of no others that have done this) but can be a bit of a b1tch to get the best out of.

Might even sound unbelievable but with a scope mounted and shooting as per F std from 300y the old "Omark" managed a 40 shot group as big as my thumb nail and a 5 shot 2 inch group (just as the sun was going down) from 1000y with these Sierra's....I wouldn't think there would be a need to explore accuracy beyond such...I just wish I was able to replicate such efforts.

Regards

Robert Alman

[Malcolm Hill]

littlebang 556
This whole issue has nothing to do with the accuracy of any of the bullets. It is all to do with the more ballistically efficient property of the new 155 Dyer.To put it in simple terms it is less effected by wind than any of the currently legal bullets-that where it has its advantage.It will allow a little more error in the shooters wind reading ability in certain changing conditions and still end up on the right side of the line at the target end of things.Up until now no shooter has had any advantage regardless of which calibre or bullet they choose to use(in F std or TR) but the new Dyer will shift the goalposts in favor of the 308. The 80gn Amax will help the 223 user but on paper only bridges the gap but does not equal the Dyer on performance.Now if we could use the 80gn Berger mmmmmm.
Regards Malcolm.

[John E]

Obviously, those using the new Dyer projectile will be shooting many more 60s than they have in the past, and they will be winning everything, won't they?
I can see a problem here --- they're going to have to find a new excuse when this doesn't happen.

John

[Simon C]

This discussion is based on simple physics. If the new dyer is 'slipperier' than the exisiting 5.56 option, then there is an advantage. That cannot be disputed.

It is for that reason that I support the use of an alternative projectile for the ratgunners.

Just a question for those 308 shooters out there (of which I am one):

If you had a choice between the old dyer and new dyer (improved BC) and they are the same price etc, which would you use? I think I know the answer

[AlanF]

To use a much used analogy, V8 Supercar racing, if either Ford or Holden wins too much, the rules are fine-tuned to correct the imbalance. Perhaps the NRAA should do a wait and see on this, but be prepared to act quickly if there is a significant decline in the success rate of .223 shooters.

Because there are other advantages that the .223 has over the .308 e.g. inherently more accurate, and less recoil, it is the overall success rate that will give the best indication of which calibre needs a leg up, if any.

One concern if the BCs are allowed to get too far apart is that the .308 might get a clear advantage at the longs only, with the .223 being better at the shorts. This may give an advantage to those who can afford one of each calibre.

Alan

[Simon C]

Switch barrel F-Standard!!!!