Split Necks

Ben F · Post by **Ben F** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:15 am

I have a 6X47L on its first lot of 100 cases that has done 1200 rnds , on Saturday 5 out of 26 rounds split the neck.
These cases had been fired 8 or 9 times before they were partially (only removing high spot) neck turned.
So my question is "did neck turning cause this or had the cases just had enough after being loaded 12 times"?

Ben

Steve 2141 · Post by **Steve 2141** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:25 am

HI BEN

SOME MORE INFO PLEASE

WHAT SIZE NECK IS YOUR CHAMBER ?
WHAT SIZE IS THE NECK ON THE LOADED ROUND ?
ARE YOU FLS AND IF SO HOW MUCH HEAD SPACE ?
WHAT TYPE OF DIE YOU USING STANDARD OR BUSHING ?
ARE THE NECKS SPLITTING ALONG THE AXIS OR AROUND THE BASE ?

CHEERS

littlebang556 · Post by **littlebang556** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:38 am

1st of all you do not mention what brand brass.
Whilst I have no dirrect answer as such for you I can let you know that I have recently retired a batch of 600 Winchester .223 shells that had a life of heavy loading after some 19 reloads and not once did I encounter a split neck...although it was lose primer pockets that were my 1st sign of worn out cases followed by case head seperation.
These cases were F/L resized every time and never neck turned.
Having said this, it would be my preference to start with a fresh batch of brass and neck turn at the beginning of the case life rather than waiting for the effects of factory annealing to wear off.
Keep a record of what you do so that a winning remedy is repetable and more importantly that which results in poor case life/performence are not.
Hope this is of use.

Regards

Rob Alman

Ben F · Post by **Ben F** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:46 am

Hi Steve,
The chamber is .271 & loaded neck is .269 using a F/L bushing die with .268 bush.
The die has been set up so there is slight head space.
All have split down the neck not around.
Ive got some new brass F/L sized but am now reluctant to turn if it will shorten case life.

Thanks Ben

Ben F · Post by **Ben F** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:59 am

Rob,
The cases are 6.5x47 Lapua necked down & youre absolutley right , they should have been turned from the start.

It was chamber .271 so no neck turn was required but then discovered that this caliber in Lapua brass does not have very good contrensisty new.

Steve 2141 · Post by **Steve 2141** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:51 am

BEN

WITH THAT INFO I THINK THAT IT'S THE BRASS. WITH THOSE DIMENSIONS YOU SHOULDN'T ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE NECKS SPLITTING, THE ONLY TIMES I'VE SEEN PROBLEMS CAUSED BY NECK TURNING IS WHEN THE BRASS IS TURNED TOO FAR INTO THE NECK JUNCTION CAUSING NECK SEPERATION OR TOO MUCH CLEARANCE IN THE CHAMBER NECK.

HAVE YOU NOTICE ANY DIFFERENCE IN NECK TENSION WHEN SEATING AND IF YOU ARE BELTING THEM HARD PRIMER POCKET TENSION.

Post by **AlanF** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:59 pm

Ben,

I would agree with Rob too. After 10 firings the necks will be more brittle, and turning them would put enough tangential force on the necks that I'm not surprised you got some splitting. I turn necks but always on new or at most once-fired brass.

Alan

Ben F · Post by **Ben F** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:11 pm

Thanks for all youre replies,

It didn't occure to me that turning after so many firings would stress the neck.
The conclusion I came to was O.K to turn but not after 9 firings.
Lets see if I can make this new brass last a little longer , an expensive mistake at $157/100.

Ben

mike H · Post by **mike H** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:51 pm

Ben F wrote:Thanks for all youre replies,

It didn't occure to me that turning after so many firings would stress the neck.
The conclusion I came to was O.K to turn but not after 9 firings.
Lets see if I can make this new brass last a little longer , an expensive mistake at $157/100.

Ben

If they were my cases, I would try annealing the necks.
Mike.

Ben F · Post by **Ben F** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:39 am

Mike,
Do you mean the old cases or the new ones?
If annealing will extend the life of old cases it would be worth a try.

Ben

Woody_rod · Post by **Woody_rod** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:36 am

Ben,

Annealing the necks works very well on brass like Winchester, which is quite hard as compared to Lapua (for example), particularly at the neck. Annealing is not for the uninitiated - only if you are sure about what you are doing. Annealing certainly extends the life of brass, but is it really worth the risk?? Compared to most costs in rifle shooting, brass is pretty cheap in comparison.

Working metal which ends in either fatigue or work hardening is a problem with brass and such alloys. The more you work it, the worse it gets. I havn't seen any problems with most brass fired many times.

Although I don't neck turn anything, I would think it would best be done when it is new or fire formed.

littlebang556 · Post by **littlebang556** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:30 am

I may very well be wrong...and it wont be the first time, but I was under the impression that all brass was annealed from new. Many manufacturers polish evedence of this away unlike Lapua (Lawastedmoney).
The extra expense of shells costing $1.57ea is well out of my range of affordable shooting...At 19 firings, like I managed out of my lazy case prep tecniques with Winchester brass this would have still cost 8 1/4c ea instead of a mere 2 1/2c ea.
The cases when new (once fired of even fireformed)) WILL be soft enough to neck turn and will not result in the premature failure that resulted from doing so following a number of processes to allow case hardening.
You may extend the life of your brass by annealing at intervals of its life and if done right is well worth the effort but if no knowledge in the field has been experienced please do some research as others have ironed out some of the bugs and even designed tools to assist in making the process fool proof.

Cheers

Rob Alman

Otherwise I will keep using my Wincheaper brass.

RAVEN · Post by **RAVEN** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:33 am

Hi Ben I have been annealing for a few years
Go to http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

There is some good info there
The best way I have found is turning the case in a cordless drill through a flame in a darkened room
This gives as good as factory results
My 284 brass is the original stuff and I have reloaded it over 20 times
Never had a split nick or and case head separation
Cheers
RB

PS don’t bother with the water pan method

mike H · Post by **mike H** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:51 am

Ben F wrote:Mike,
Do you mean the old cases or the new ones?
If annealing will extend the life of old cases it would be worth a try.

Ben

I meant the old ones.
Mike.

Simon C · Post by **Simon C** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:58 am

RAVEN wrote:Hi Ben I have been annealing for a few years
Go to http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

There is some good info there
The best way I have found is turning the case in a cordless drill through a flame in a darkened room
This gives as good as factory results
My 284 brass is the original stuff and I have reloaded it over 20 times
Never had a split nick or and case head separation
Cheers
RB
PS don’t bother with the water pan method

Hi Richard,

Do u water quench them or air cool after heating them to the temp?