barrel cleaning issues

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:10 am

my last barrel was an experiment which i will not repeat.
in the past i have run barrels in much more than other people seem to think necessary.
this one was run in minimally.
i also experimented with minimal cleaning in attempt to see if it would settle sooner from clean. by minimal cleaning, i mean that some jacket fouling was almost always left in the barrel after cleaning.
at its peak of accuracy, this barrel's core group held elevation of about 3/4 of the x ring, with about one in 20 shots producing a flyer into the 6 ring. it quickly degraded into a core group of about 1.5 times the x ring, with 2 out of 10 being flyers into the 5 ring.
different powders, primers, and seating depths were tried to no avail.
reverting to super cleaning took about 5 to 6 shots to settle down, good accuracy for abot 5 shots, then back to its old tricks.
this problem could also be related to firing pin spring, scope or other things but i don't think so. it is not bedding, because the action is glued in to fibreglass.
a friend's borescope revealed quite a few pitted areas all the way up the barrel.
years ago a mentor told me that leaving copper fouling in barrels can cause an electrolitic reaction ( like a battery) which can damage a bore.
i suspect this is what happened here.
the barrel was never left dirty, usually being cleaned saturday night after the shoot.
new barrel will be run in religiously ( maybe get range rector to bless it as well) and cleaned spotlessly.
previous barrel lasted 2400 shots. this one gone at 1000. (284 win)
barrels aint barrels sol.
bruce.

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:41 am

Bruce,

Was it a Krieger barrel?

I always clean my barrels the next morning (Sunday) and it doesn't seem to have done any harm. When the barrels are clean, I always run a patch soaked in Ballistol thru it, then run one dry patch thru to take out most, but not all of the oil.

I shoot the gun the next Saturday without running a patch thru it first and the cold bore shot is usually a little low. After the first shot all my barrels are on target and its just down to me.

Good luck with your new barrel!

IanP

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:52 am

ian,
that is what i used to do with similar first shot results.
considering your track record with accuracy that is very good news to hear.
the barrel is a krieger, but i deliberately did not say that before, because i think the abuse i gave it would have applied to any brand.
the previous barrel cleaned up well with 10 strokes of hoppes no 9, which would suggest it was run in properly.
thanks for the advice,
bruce.

Brad Y · Post by **Brad Y** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:35 am

Bruce

My current 308 barrel was very bad when it came to fouling. Its now done about 170 shots. I was getting bad copper all the way through to about 100 shots. It got auto sol, iosso bore paste, cutting oil down it, everything to try and smooth out all the bits that were picking up copper. In the end, shooting it and keeping clean between shooting got it run in properly. Now when finished it gets two wet patches of eliminator, nylon brushed with eliminator, two or three more wet patches then dry patch for 3 patches and its clean. One more of rem oil before storing muzzle down and the first shot gets fired without patching through. Every 80 or so shots I polish the throat with Iosso paste and check with a borescope.

While many believe it isnt necessary, I dont see why we wouldnt invest a little time and effort into ensuring our barrels work well. As you have found out it seems to be time worth spent. Maybe not for a hunting rifle, but for our sport definitely.

I know there are some barrels out there that run in after only a dozen or so shots. Ive never had one though and it doesnt bother me. I will still do my one shot clean etc for the first few and keep an eye on what builds up in the bore.

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:30 pm

most interesting thank you brad.
that eliminator is a very effective solvent on both carbon and copper.
i thought i had found the ultimate with k g products, but boretech is at least as effective and does both carbon and copper in one go, a great plus when time is important, like when running in.
how many shots does your barrel take to settle in?
prior to the barrel described, i used to clean every range (10 - 12 shots) for a few times after running in, as part of the running in process.
bruce.

Post by **AlanF** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:31 pm

bruce moulds wrote:...a friend's borescope revealed quite a few pitted areas all the way up the barrel...

Bruce,

My latest Krieger (7mm) has some unusual "dotted" pitting - I'm wondering if it came from the same batch of steel as yours - I haven't done anything different with cleaning, but haven't seen this particular condition in any other barrel.

Alan

Brad Y · Post by **Brad Y** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:03 pm

Hi Bruce

Im still cleaning after the first 12 shots of the morning, before the second 12 shots or between ranges. However after looking at it with the bore scope, i believe it will be fine to start shooting a full club day or a couple of ranges before cleaning. Still learning what its doing but the club days are good for that. It shot a 58.3 the other day in trying conditions so no problem with its performance when its running.

I find the first shot is if anything a little low, but im usually running one or two fouling shots through the evening before or on the way to the range so its on the money straight up.

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:04 pm

alan,
my barrel was purchased nov last year. when did you get yours?
it is 8.5" twist.
brad,
your first shot lower ties in with ian's experience, and mine previously.
bruce.

Post by **AlanF** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:20 pm

Bruce,

Mine was delivered a few months ago and is 1 in 9. I noticed the pitting after only 100 or so rounds. Doesn't seem to have spread, which suggests "bubbles" of softer metal perhaps.

Alan

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:19 pm

Alan,
Not necessarily, could have been " inclusions " of harder carbon.
Needs checking out == remember the MAB ones that fractured.

Barry

Post by **AlanF** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:48 pm

Barry Davies wrote:...Needs checking out == remember the MAB ones that fractured...

Yes I have a borescope so will get some more opinions. As I said I haven't seen the likes of it, but others may have.

mike H · Post by **mike H** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:07 pm

Brad Y wrote:Hi Bruce

Im still cleaning after the first 12 shots of the morning, before the second 12 shots or between ranges. However after looking at it with the bore scope, i believe it will be fine to start shooting a full club day or a couple of ranges before cleaning. Still learning what its doing but the club days are good for that. It shot a 58.3 the other day in trying conditions so no problem with its performance when its running.

I find the first shot is if anything a little low, but im usually running one or two fouling shots through the evening before or on the way to the range so its on the money straight up.

Hello Brad,
Not keen on your fouling shots idea, apart from wasting ammo,sooner or later you will get caught with no where to fire these foulers. A better plan is to work out where the first shot from a clean barrel goes and allow for it,that way you will be giving yourself a chance to fire less shots in a match.
Mike.

Brad Y · Post by **Brad Y** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:30 pm

Hi Mike

I have 2000 acres to shoot on as im licensed to use my 308 (yes I have a hunting barrel as well) on private property- we have a couple of dairy farms, plus a few other properties nearby. I only do this if I get time and it serves to double check im zeroed for windage- we dont usually have to wind on much wind here.

Will do a few more clean bore shots though and check where they land. From memory im not far from the 6 ring anyway.

mike H · Post by **mike H** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:17 pm

Brad,
I am in town now, certainly miss being able to fire a shot when I liked to in my farming days.Why I mentioned the subject is that for a lot of shooters, the first sighter is really only a fouler, when if the barrel is predictable, more use can be made of that shot.

bartman007 · Post by **bartman007** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:04 pm

Hi Brad,

Just as Mike.H was pointing out, there will be a day that will come where you may not have the opportunity to perform a fouling shot prior to competition.

Point in question is if you attend a Queens prize meeting that is conducted over 4 to 5 days. Where will you fire those FOULERS?

The simplest method is to learn what the rifle does with the first few shots and accommodate for them. You should find that the rifle does the same thing after every clean (unless it is the once every 500+ rounds polish with JB's or the like).

If you have a well structured cleaning regime, then you should get the same response after each clean.

I too see the first one going LOW, then the next is about 1 point higher. Then it drops about a 1/4 point for the 3rd shot. After that it levels out.

With that, this means I set my sight 1 point higher for my first shot, get the CENTER :-)

and then drop 1point for my next shot. Depending on where that shot is in elevation (high Center), I may elect to leave the 3rd shot without the 1/4 point change UP.

Once you plot your groups a few times after cleaning, you can establish this pattern.

Regards,

Bartman.

barrel cleaning issues

barrel cleaning issues

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