Has anyone had problems with their Whidden bullet pointer?

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:36 am

Hi Guys and Gals,

My Whidden bullet pointing die has pulled threads out of the micrometer housing. Its less than a couple of years old and has only been used carefully with fairly mild pointing.

The supplier is working with me however, I'm about to compose an email to Whidden, and want to know if anyone else has had the same experience.

My die is the older Forster die with the fine thread. Apparently the later models have been changed and use a courser thread.

Thanks, Denis.

aaronraad · Post by **aaronraad** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:58 am

It depends how much pressure you are applying to achieve the point you want?

Pressures used for seating projectiles into cases are typically less than the for pointing. During pointing you are causing elestic deformation of the tip and most likley the ogive and then shank/boat tail depending on the stiffness ration of the design. The overall hardness of the projectile (lead core and gilding metal jacket) dictates the amount of pressue used during swaging and this can range from 20,000 psi to 80,000 psi. Correct bullet pointing actually takes place in a closed die set-up. A closed dies set-up for boat tail bullet pointing is $,$$$ and is unique to one shape only.

Micrometers aren't necessarily designed to lbe oaded up with large forces so I couldn't see them successfully adapting a standard unit. Fine threads achieve the adjustment but there is a reason relaoding dies use a 7/8"-14 tpi or 5/8"-26 tpi (BSB-55deg or BSCy-60deg?) when under shear.

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:13 pm

Yep, thats the logic behind the problem. Just wondering how many others have had the pleasure of the failing.
It'd be good to approach Whidden with other examples of the same issue.

Considering the price, I was pretty dissappointed at the start to see that it was just a modified Forster die.
Although its something thats quite easily fixed, considering the price I think Whidden should be doing something about it.

Quick · Post by **Quick** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:38 pm

Ill be following this thread closely as I want to get a whidden pointing die.

Cheers for the info guys.

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:36 pm

I've been using one on 210 SMKs since 2009 without issues.

When I first got it, I backed out the centre adjusting screw (the little one with the lock nut) so the micrometer was way down the body - the same as I did for my Forster seating die.

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:22 pm

No problems with mine and have had it for some years now and all good!
The Forster seating die that Whidden uses is still working as well now as when I got it. I have probably pointed 4000 projectiles so far from 80 grainers for my 22's up to 230 grain for my 30 cal.

I have all 3 of Whidden's die inserts and always use the one thats right for the ogive and point thats required. I have never needed to use much force in bullet pointing and have even done some in two stages and using two die inserts to create my own hybrid ogives.

Ian

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:44 am

Thanks for the replies guys,

It looks like it may not be a common problem then.

Cheers.

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:53 am

Hi All,

Just to update...

I emailed John Whidden and he's been very helpful and has put some new die parts in the post for me at no charge. The new die parts are no longer Forster parts. They make their own in-house now and use a courser thread.

I took some measurements that he asked for to confirm that the die had been setup correctly.

aaronraad · Post by **aaronraad** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:37 pm

Great to see you're getting some support!

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:13 pm

DenisA wrote:Hi All,

Just to update...

I emailed John Whidden and he's been very helpful and has put some new die parts in the post for me at no charge. The new die parts are no longer Forster parts. They make their own in-house now and use a courser thread.

I took some measurements that he asked for to confirm that the die had been setup correctly.

Dennis is there any chance of posting some pictures of the damaged thread? I would also like to know what difference there is between the course and fine thread. Do you know the pitch and tpi of the threads etc?

I'm interested in what has happened in your case as I'm sure I must have one of the older Forster seating dies he used to make the pointing tool. I dont have any problems but I'm interested to see what you have found.

Ian

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:59 pm

IanP wrote:
DenisA wrote:Hi All,

Just to update...

I emailed John Whidden and he's been very helpful and has put some new die parts in the post for me at no charge. The new die parts are no longer Forster parts. They make their own in-house now and use a courser thread.

I took some measurements that he asked for to confirm that the die had been setup correctly.

Dennis is there any chance of posting some pictures of the damaged thread? I would also like to know what difference there is between the course and fine thread. Do you know the pitch and tpi of the threads etc?

I'm interested in what has happened in your case as I'm sure I must have one of the older Forster seating dies he used to make the pointing tool. I dont have any problems but I'm interested to see what you have found.

Ian

G'day Ian,

As you can see, the alloy threads are not stripped but have broken away allowing the screw/bolt to jump when swaging the meplat. The screw will still wind smoothly, though very loose with excessive freeplay.
Important to point out that this is the micrometer body, not the the micrometer turret.

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:01 pm

Great photo as it tells the story of what failed. I wonder if the threads were cut with a damaged tool/tap and were not cut full depth?

I notice you use the word alloy for the body of the die with the thread. Do you mean alloy steel or aluminium? I pulled mine apart to check for damage and its all ok but it is definitely steel not aluminium.

Hope you get the die replaced and get back to some serious pointing of bullets instead of die repairs!

Ian

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:15 pm

Ian its definately aluminium. I just went to double check. It's very light, has that grey dust around the thread that aluminium gets when it rubs and wears also theres no hint of a strong magnet wanting to stick to it.

The whole die, aside from the screw is aluminium.

Cheers Ian, I'm looking forward trouble free pointing.

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:30 pm

DenisA wrote:Ian its definately aluminium. I just went to double check. It's very light, has that grey dust around the thread that aluminium gets when it rubs and wears also theres no hint of a strong magnet wanting to stick to it.

The whole die, aside from the screw is aluminium.

Cheers Ian, I'm looking forward trouble free pointing.

Now I know why mine is trouble free as its all steel construction except for the 7/8" lock ring and the aluminium calibre sleeves that John makes for the die. Mine is his version 1 of the bullet pointing die and I guess the Forster micrometer seater was all steel construction a few years ago. Back when I first got the tool it had only one die insert for pointing. I did a little testing for John with his other inserts he made for VLD and other ogives before he put them on the market.

Ian

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:52 pm

Mine is steel too & so is my Forster micro bullet seater, the latter which is maybe 15 years old.