Whidden dies, only 1/2 the job done?

[Tim N]

Hi All,
I have a set of whidden FLS bushing dies for 284 and 280AI
The bush only sizes approx 1/2 way down the neck
One of the shooters in my club had the same issue and had the die modified so it would size the whole neck.
1. Is this how they should be?
2. Is there any issue if I continue to use as is?

[Singo85]

Tim,
My Whidden die does the same and I prefer it to only size half to a quarter of the neck. I have been told it helps with maintaining consistent neck tension.

Regards
Michael

[Brad Y]

I dont find it a problem as mine sizes no more than 2/3rds the neck. I actually back it off a whisker more and size about half. One thing to look out for if your chambers are no turn necks that there is clearance for your case to go in. I had to get a shehane die modified to suit as I think Whiddens reamer was that of a tighter neck. I emailed him and notified him of it so expect most now should be fine.

[6.5x55ai]

Same as all my Wilson dies. They also explain the feature in their blurb that comes with the dies so it is not a surprise or a cause for wondering if something is wrong. I find 2/3 resizing satisfactory, the last 1/3 remains at close to chamber dimension to aid, arguably, case alignment in the chamber. I also run light neck tensions (20lbs seating force) and that is easily achieved with only 2/3 of the neck sized and the right sized bush.

[RDavies]

The problem with only sizing 1/2 or 2/3rds of the neck is that if you are shooting projectiles with a pressure ring (most of us are), then the larger pressure ring drops into the unsized area portion and your neck tension drops off. (unless you are seating way out). My Whidden 284 Shehane die sizes all the way which I like as seating force is consistent and there is no sticky, unsized portion of the neck to hang up in the chamber. I got Matt Paroz (LRP) to machine some of my Wilson dies so they size the whole neck.
If you are loading so your bullets are jammed or touching the lands, you don't need a big fat unsized neck section to centre your case, the bullet will do that when it gets stuck into the lands (unless your neck tension drops off and your bullet gets pushed into the case).

[AlanF]

The pressure rings is something I hadn't considered Rod. My 7 Shehane FL die (used every firing) necks about 75%, and I do notice seating gets very slightly easier after the pressure ring goes deeper, but is it enough to matter? I look upon the unsized portion of the neck as an insurance against donuts - even though I don't neck turn, they still form, but never need removing. Would be interesting to hear other opinions on this.

[Brad Y]

If only lee made a collet die to suit the 284W. Those dies are brilliant at sizing necks. Not sure if they have resumed custom works again.

[aaronraad]

The problem with only sizing 1/2 or 2/3rds of the neck is that if you are shooting projectiles with a pressure ring (most of us are), then the larger pressure ring drops into the unsized area portion and your neck tension drops off. (unless you are seating way out). My Whidden 284 Shehane die sizes all the way which I like as seating force is consistent and there is no sticky, unsized portion of the neck to hang up in the chamber. I got Matt Paroz (LRP) to machine some of my Wilson dies so they size the whole neck.
If you are loading so your bullets are jammed or touching the lands, you don't need a big fat unsized neck section to centre your case, the bullet will do that when it gets stuck into the lands (unless your neck tension drops off and your bullet gets pushed into the case).

Rod,

How much of pressure ring are you measuring with the boat-tailed projectiles over calibre? Is it a true pressure-ring that is measured on flat-base projectiles with a very parallel shank or is it a positive taper increasing from the shank/ogive to the shank/base junctions? How would you describe the pressure-ring?

Cheers
Aaorn

[RDavies]

The problem with only sizing 1/2 or 2/3rds of the neck is that if you are shooting projectiles with a pressure ring (most of us are), then the larger pressure ring drops into the unsized area portion and your neck tension drops off. (unless you are seating way out). My Whidden 284 Shehane die sizes all the way which I like as seating force is consistent and there is no sticky, unsized portion of the neck to hang up in the chamber. I got Matt Paroz (LRP) to machine some of my Wilson dies so they size the whole neck.
If you are loading so your bullets are jammed or touching the lands, you don't need a big fat unsized neck section to centre your case, the bullet will do that when it gets stuck into the lands (unless your neck tension drops off and your bullet gets pushed into the case).

Rod,

How much of pressure ring are you measuring with the boat-tailed projectiles over calibre? Is it a true pressure-ring that is measured on flat-base projectiles with a very parallel shank or is it a positive taper increasing from the shank/ogive to the shank/base junctions? How would you describe the pressure-ring?

Cheers
Aaorn

I have just done some micrometering with 140 hybrids, 168 VLDs and 180gn Hybrids.
All of my 180VLDs are seated so cant be measured.
My 6.5 Hybrids (lot#5306) go from .2640" on the shank to .2647" in a short space, around .050" or so, definitely not a gradual taper, a definite ring.
I recently had the reamer for this chamber reground a tad shorter. I ended up having to get MattP to machine the die back out and slightly throat it again on this one as the bullet started to drop in with no tension once I got past the sized section.
168gn VLDs lott # 000504 measure .2837-.2838 on the shanks and then abruptly step up to .2840 I the last .050" or so, so a slight pressure ring of around.0003" , but definitely not a gradual taper.
The 180 Hybrids Lot# 5241 are .2840" on the shank then abruptly step up to .2847, so a .0007" ring for the last .0050" or so.
Lot#5566 Berger hybrids go from .2840 to .2846, or .0006", once again, not a gradual taper, but a short abrupt pressure ring.
I cant measure my 180VLDs, but if they are the same lot as Big John who Tim mainly shoots with on weekends, I would say they have at least the same pressure ring or more than the hybrids I measured. Big John also had to have his die modified very recently as his bullets went from a nice seating pressure, to falling in with no tension once it got past the sized section. His 280AI die only size slightly less than half of the neck.

[6.5x55ai]

Mmmm interesting thread.
I have just measured some of mine.
MItutoyo mic used, average of 10 projectiles of each lot measured.

7mm 180gr Hybrids Lot#3748 - body 0.2840, pressure ring area 0.28425
7mm 180gr Hybrids Lot#6797 (arrived from the States last week) - body 0.28415, pressure ring area 0.28425
7mm 180gr OTM Scenar-L - body 0.28425, pressure ring the same dimension as body

Have some other 180gr from a different lot but they have been loaded and pulled and although they shouldn't have been upset (mmm reverse upset) I will leave them out of the measurements.

[AlanF]

I'd be interested to know the situation with 180VLDs, as these seat deepest of everything I use.

[aaronraad]

Hopefully Craig McGowan can share some of his recent 284 Shehane testing. I think there might be some useful projectile batch testing measurements worth exploring to determine if they are a significant factor for F-Class. Especially if 7mm is the calibre of choice going into Connaught for the teams.