Batching shell weights What grain increments?

[tom1]

I have 300 once fired .308 Winchester Palma brass that I am about to reload . I shoot target rifle with an Omark action. What weight batches do other shooters recommend? Is 0.25 grain batches being anal and a waste of time . I have just weighed about 100 . Shell weights vary from 154.5 to 161.5, most being 157.5 to 159. Ideally I would like two batches of 50 shells that I can use . Load is 45 grain of 2208 and HBC projectiles. Any advice would be appreciated.

[mike H]

I have 300 once fired .308 Winchester Palma brass that I am about to reload . I shoot target rifle with an Omark action. What weight batches do other shooters recommend? Is 0.25 grain batches being anal and a waste of time . I have just weighed about 100 . Shell weights vary from 154.5 to 161.5, most being 157.5 to 159. Ideally I would like two batches of 50 shells that I can use . Load is 45 grain of 2208 and HBC projectiles. Any advice would be appreciated.

I go in one grain divisions,however I doubt it would matter if the spread was larger.To be honest,I haven't tested it properly.
For simplicity take the few outsiders at the top and bottom weight out and give that a try.Keeping lots of batches separate becomes a pain.
Mike.

[Razer]

If that is once fired and untrimmed brass then you have got a far bigger weight variation than I have ever experienced.
With the Lapua Palma brass, new cases, my variation would be less than one grain. Same for RWS, HPS and the original Lapua.
I do not batch 308 Lapua brass. Even if I batch my loaded brass, there is never more than a one grain spread.
I have done this and placed them in the ammo box, going from lightest to heaviest, and never had to touch the elevation turret after the first sighter. This includes 1000yd ranges.
A 7 grain spread like you have is not uncommon with Winchester brass, but Lapua?
If they are untrimmed, once fired then you can only take the closest for weight and load them for a scoring stage.
Then load the lightest and the heaviest, keep them separate and fire them off alternatively in a non competitive shoot and plot the shots.
You would only get a vertical difference on a reasonable day and, you may be surprised just how little that is in a 308.
Theoretically you should get one high, then one low depending on how well you shoot, or, just how your load suits that rifle.
A poorly bedded or tuned rifle will have a far greater influence than case weight. Just my 2 cents worth................

I see that Mike has posted while I was typing and yes, keeping batches separate is a pain, particularly after you start to trim and then case length varies so you need to re-batch..........and,

[tom1]

Thanks for the replies. Yes they are once fired and untrimmed. Weighed about 60 Winchester bullets yesterday and there was a 5 grain variation in one box of 20. I then batched them into 1 grain lots.
My dad used to do all my reloading ,sometimes I would give him a hand but I never did take a great deal of notice. Sadly he has gone to the great range in the sky. All the equipment is there , I just have to put it all to use. Luckily we have another shooter at the club who is very helpful with advice.
How often do you have to trim Winchester brass? Is six reloads about the life of this brass?

[Razer]

Crony of Winchester factory cartridges show up to 100+ fps difference and I would not attribute that to total cartridge weight.

If you are referring to Winchester brand brass, I bought 500 ex military Winchester cases about 2004, even had the nick from the machinegun extractor.
I full resized then trimmed to 2 inches. Never trimmed or full resized again, only neck sized with a Lee Collet die.
My son has been using 300 of them for TR since 2004.
I do his reloading and these 300 cases are still going and would be averaging 40 reloads.
He is A grade so they must still be going ok. Neck tension is still constant as is primer seating.
Shot in an Angel action, 45.6 grs 2208 with CCI primers, HBC's seated 20 thous off.
Current barrel now has over 7500 rounds through it and he still water lines the target.
I tumble the brass after each firing, neck size and put in a big plastic peanut butter jar. This goes to the back of the previous jars so all cases are rotated, which keeps them approximately equal in most respects.
Only ever junked one and that was for a loose primer pocket. No cracked necks or case separations.

If you are referring to Winchester 308W Lapua brass, then I treat these the same.
Only junk them when there is an obvious flaw. These are loaded stiffer as I shoot F class and a couple of barrels require 46.7 grs 2208(not to be used in an Omark or any other untried action).

Only 6 reloads is FO territory.

[tom1]

The brass is Winchester brand brass.Super X 155 gr Palma Match. I am starting from scratch as there are batches of shells that I have no idea how many times they have been reloaded.

[DaveMc]

Tom -
As stated elsewhere (you may not have seen) we have done a study on this recently with 284 and 7mmSAUM cases and have promised a written article on it (now half way through). 7 grain variation is very typical of Winchester brass.

For your application 0.25grains is way overkill. It depends on you personally and how anal you really want to be - no damage is done by going too far (if you have the time and patience). But I doubt you will see any benefit in going any further than 1 or 2 grain increments. That batch in the middle sounds very good - but don't be afraid to use unsorted brass at the shorter ranges - you will not see a difference with the right tune.

If it was me I would sort into 3 batches - I would get a few boxes out of the middle large batch (157.5-159 grains).Then group rest into a lighter and a heavier batch (maybe ditch the low numbers on extremes and use them for setting up dies, neck turning, annealing or anything else you do). and use the middle batch(es) for your long range brass.

[Razer]

The brass is Winchester brand brass. Super X 155 gr Palma Match. I am starting from scratch as there are batches of shells that I have no idea how many times they have been reloaded.

Some cases from the club rifle came to me to reload.
There were some Winchester cases head stamped Super, and they all weighed the same, except that they were, from memory, about 9 grs on average lighter than ordinary Winchester brass.
I gave them away to a shooter for hunting. First and only time that I have seen that head stamp, but, they may have got into the mix when a shooter was using hunting ammo to zero his hunting rifle.
I found them before reloading as, after tumbling I clean primer pockets and sort the brass for brands.
To save tumbling each rifles chambered brass separately I use a different brass for each of my 4 chambering's so can tumble just once.

[bsouthernau]

If you've got a couple of hours to spare you could enter the individual case weights into Excel and sort them by weight. That way you end up with four boxes pretty close together and a box more widely spaced at each end. As others have said - you may not notice the benefit but it's not going to hurt you and you only have to do it once.

Barry

[bsouthernau]

There were some Winchester cases head stamped Super, and they all weighed the same, except that they were, from memory, about 9 grs on average lighter than ordinary Winchester brass.
I gave them away to a shooter for hunting. First and only time that I have seen that head stamp,

Super were well known in days of yore. I've got Super cases for my 303/25.

[tom1]

Thanks for the replies. I have two more questions. I weighed the HBC projectiles last night , most were 155.1 gr but there was the odd one at 153.5 . what weightbatches do others use?
Secondly my Dad used to shoot .223 and he moly coated his Amax projectiles and he also moly coated my .308 projectiles as he had the time. Is it worth doing this anymore. He claimed it did make cleaning easier. Is it a good idea to shoot batches of moly coated and unmoly coated or keep it all the same in one rifle?

[AlanF]

Thanks for the replies. I have two more questions. I weighed the HBC projectiles last night , most were 155.1 gr but there was the odd one at 153.5 . what weightbatches do others use?
Secondly my Dad used to shoot .223 and he moly coated his Amax projectiles and he also moly coated my .308 projectiles as he had the time. Is it worth doing this anymore. He claimed it did make cleaning easier. Is it a good idea to shoot batches of moly coated and unmoly coated or keep it all the same in one rifle?

Tom,

I don't believe projectile weight is checked by many - I check it occasionally and haven't seen the need. A lighter projectile will probably have a lower BC but will also probably come out faster, so to some degree it compensates. However if you have a few outliers several grains apart, then I'd cull them for unimportant firings such as running in or fouling the barrel or first sighter etc.

I've molyed everything for years and will continue to do so. Most don't. I'm sure it doesn't do any harm as some would have you believe. And I think your dad is correct about cleaning - I think it allows you to go more rounds between cleans, so is particularly helpful for ageing barrels. Its also excellent for troublesome coppering barrels. And don't mix molyed and uncoated in the same barrel. It takes at least a full shoot for moly to settle, and even longer for it to wear out when going back to uncoated. You'll probably need slightly more powder to achieve the same velocity with moly, but in my experience pressure will if anything be lower at the same velocity.

Hope this helps.

Alan

[tom1]

Thanks Alan ,I think I will sort the cases into 1 grain lots ,check projectile weight an keep using the moly. Unfortunately I have about 60 Winchester factory ammo to use in the next few weeks then I will reload for the WARA Queens. Given the lack of shooting I have done lately, bullet quality is probably the least of my worries.
How do those that moly coat projectiles do it . Dad used a plastic container that he put on a homemade tumbler. I think he put about 100 projectiles with about a teaspoon of moly. Then I think he put these inside an old sock that was then placed in the plastic container, then placed on the tumbler. Does this sound about right. The projectiles came out all covered in moly so it worked.

[AlanF]

Tom,

For 100 projectiles I would use less than 1/4 tsp of moly powder - it goes a loooong way. I do about 100 at a time and have found it needs at least 4hrs tumbling to do the best job. Before molying make sure the projectiles are clean - I saturate with Shellite about 50 small (inch square) pieces of rag in a plastic container and tumble the projectiles in it by hand for 2 or 3 minutes, then remove and dry by swinging them from end to end of an old towel. I use the same towel method for removing the excess moly and shining the bullets at completion. Doing it this way, the molyed projectiles can be handled without it coming off on your fingers.

I found once I had the method refined, its not a big chore.

Alan

[plumbs7]

Hi Tom , just thought I would share my Omark load with u . They don't seem to like a hot load . Most people say don't go over 46 gr of 2208 . My 155 gr load berger hybred is 45.8 gr and fed large primers. My normal load in my other rifle is 46.4 to 46.2 gr 2208 . Dyers are probably just as good !
Best wishes Graham.