WINDAGE...HOLD OFF or WIND ON?

[Jase PTRC]

Hi ive been studying different ways to cope with changing wind conditions and have found that in the USA a lot of prominent shooters have a tendency to use hold off rather than put wind on the scope. I just want to gather people thoughts on this. They say in the USA a lot if you touch the scope your doomed, I have found through shooting coached team events me being the shooter with an exceptional coach that putting wind on to be quite successful in even the tricky conditions that lower light produces.

[plumbs7]

Hi mate , I'll share with u what Jeni H told me ( recent WA queens winner).
Dial in a correction that Brackets the wind . Then hold off for the rest . I know Cam and Julie Mac hold off (current world Champs ) and so do I ( for what that's worth !).
Plus Dialing takes time and by the time u have dialed the wind may have changed . For starters just hold off no more that the edge of the 6 ring !
Regards Graham S. Dalby RC

[dummos]

I use a sightron scope with a 1moa dash reticle. I average the wind from my 2 sighters and adjust the scope as a base line, then hold off from there on in as it picks up and drops off.

[AlanF]

For individual shooting (as against coached teams) holding off has a clear benefit in terms of response to changes. If you're shooting in tricky conditions where the flags/mirage are changing frequently, you need to be able to change your aim quickly to respond. With winding the knobs in these conditions you'll sometimes find it harder to catch up with the conditions simply because of the time it takes to move your hand up to the knob and turn it. You'll often find yourself making several adjustments. Whereas shifting your aim with a joystick rest takes a only a split second. The main drawback of aiming (holding) off is that it needs a good memory and some mental gymnastics to do. You need to be thinking about several things at once e.g. where did I aim last time? what is the result? where do I aim to correct that? has the wind changed again? But if you break the task down into a series of simple steps, and practice it, then it will become automatic.

For team shooting, I don't believe any aiming off system is as good as having the coach winding the knobs. There is too much opportunity for error with team shooters aiming off, particularly communication error between coach and shooter. That's not to say someone won't come up with something in future.

[RDavies]

I think a lot of it is personal preference. All minds work differently.
I prefer to keep my hold within the 6 ring (preferably less) and click for most of it, while others use mostly hold off.
Those who are used to holding off will be used to thinking that is 2 foot of wind, while the clickers will be used to thinking that is 2 minutes on the dial. Both are right, just have different ways of thinking. I think if you are new to the sport it might be best to try both and see which suits your thought process.

[johnk]

I think it's horses for courses, though I hold off for preference. One of the reasons is that I find I can get a more precise aim off a ring rather than trying to quarter the X.

The issue is that you can't be dogmatic about what you're doing. For example, when I'm shooting in ever changing conditions at match rifle distances on ranges like Lower Light & Campbell Town, I'm inclined to aim off for the shot, then dial that correction onto the sight during the target down time. That way, as Alan pointed out, I don't have to remember the hold off. Of course, it becomes a real bugger if the wind immediately reverses directional strength. I still recall during my nascent MR years being given the call by a coach in the Freebairn scratch 1200 yard match, "bullseye high, one foot left into the dirt, go on" for a consequential bullseye, but that might be the exception.

[Fergus Bailey]

I agree with Rod that its essentially what you prefer (or get used to). I have been holding off for vertical and/or horizontal for so long now that I think dialing on would completely screw me up. Unless it is so windy that I cant find a firm reference point to hold on (IE I am off the target frame), I don't like to dial on windage.

[Jase PTRC]

Thanks for the great and knowledgeable replies, my wind/mirage reading abilities are still in the infantile stages. I think trying to figure out a game plan and what works for me will take some time yet but i am trying different things.

[BATattack]

Whatever way your brain works and everyone is different!

Winding is probably more exact but as Alan said it isn't as fast so it depends on A) what your comfortable doing and how good your memory is B) how fast the conditions are changing and possibly going to repeat C) how good the sight picture is. . . Bad mirage will prevent using the rings as accurate hold off points.

I use a combination depending on what the conditions look like. Eventually you figure out a strategy that suits your style and the conditions on the day. For example if the conditions are rough in bad mirage I may still hold off even though my aiming might not be as precise I will hopefully loose less points because I have kept up with the condition. If there Is a frontal fast flicking fishtail you could either leave the gun on zero wind and hold left and right or some may choose to wind say right wind on and only shoot on right wind.

In predictable conditions i normally wind on say 3/4 of the amount required and make aiming adjustment by holding off for most shots. Also if I have a shooter watching over my shoulder I might wind on wind and hold the other direction so they get less feed back from my adjustment.

When coaching other shooters I only wind. It may not be as quick but there is less chance of human error with a shooter holding off on the wrong side and added precision.

It will take time to develop different strategies and know when to use what one but just use what you feel comfortable with and start to build from that one step at a time.

[Jase PTRC]

Whatever way your brain works and everyone is different!

Winding is probably more exact but as Alan said it isn't as fast so it depends on A) what your comfortable doing and how good your memory is B) how fast the conditions are changing and possibly going to repeat C) how good the sight picture is. . . Bad mirage will prevent using the rings as accurate hold off points.

I use a combination depending on what the conditions look like. Eventually you figure out a strategy that suits your style and the conditions on the day. For example if the conditions are rough in bad mirage I may still hold off even though my aiming might not be as precise I will hopefully loose less points because I have kept up with the condition. If there Is a frontal fast flicking fishtail you could either leave the gun on zero wind and hold left and right or some may choose to wind say right wind on and only shoot on right wind.

In predictable conditions i normally wind on say 3/4 of the amount required and make aiming adjustment by holding off for most shots. Also if I have a shooter watching over my shoulder I might wind on wind and hold the other direction so they get less feed back from my adjustment.

When coaching other shooters I only wind. It may not be as quick but there is less chance of human error with a shooter holding off on the wrong side and added precision.

It will take time to develop different strategies and know when to use what one but just use what you feel comfortable with and start to build from that one step at a time.

Thanks BATatack its quite often the case that in summer we get strong fishtailing winds and although my wind reading isn't the best I tried the method you mention of winding on right wind and only shooting on that condition or as close to it as I could recognise it something im going to continue practising. Mirage is going to be my friend someday haha

[Jase PTRC]

also with regards to putting wind on Im guessing that for the early stages of my shooting career it will help me to put a value on the wind condition im shooting on?? if so helping me to recognise wind conditions in general??

[BATattack]

I think it's horses for courses, though I hold off for preference. One of the reasons is that I find I can get a more precise aim off a ring rather than trying to quarter the X.

The issue is that you can't be dogmatic about what you're doing. For example, when I'm shooting in ever changing conditions at match rifle distances on ranges like Lower Light & Campbell Town, I'm inclined to aim off for the shot, then dial that correction onto the sight during the target down time. That way, as Alan pointed out, I don't have to remember the hold off. Of course, it becomes a real bugger if the wind immediately reverses directional strength. I still recall during my nascent MR years being given the call by a coach in the Freebairn scratch 1200 yard match, "bullseye high, one foot left into the dirt, go on" for a consequential bullseye, but that might be the exception.

Haha yep! The freebairn's have their own method of coaching and when it's rough it can work!

also with regards to putting wind on Im guessing that for the early stages of my shooting career it will help me to put a value on the wind condition im shooting on?? if so helping me to recognise wind conditions in general??

Some may have another point of view but yes I think it's a good idea to try and guess the exact wind value for the first shot when starting out. Or if you think the wind is coming 3moa a from the right and you put 2.5 on and hold right side of 6 ring to make up for the last .5moa that you haven't actually wound on giving you 3moa total.

Some guys plot every shot and use a wind chart and do a very good job of it. I'm not very good at that because it takes away from my focus but I can remember and calculate things fairly well so you just have to find what way works for your brain and play to your strengths.

[johnk]

Haha yep! The freebairn's have their own method of coaching and when it's rough it can work!

Actually it was Graham Mincham.

[bsouthernau]

The other advantage of aiming off for those of us with many years of iron ight shooting is that it minimises the risk of winding the wrong way. I can go back to iron sights after months of shooting scope only without a hiccup but always have to think carefully before winding the scope knobs.

Barry

[AlanF]

The other advantage of aiming off for those of us with many years of iron ight shooting is that it minimises the risk of winding the wrong way. I can go back to iron sights after months of shooting scope only without a hiccup but always have to think carefully before winding the scope knobs.

Barry

Yes and for that reason, I recommend that anyone making the transition from TR begin practicing aiming off from the start.