Tuning my first .284 Win, with photos

[ecomeat]

Just got my BAT Model M back from my gunsmith , now with a heavy Maddco barrel chambered in 284 Win, so thought it might be interesting to document my load development. With no 180 gr Berger VLD's or Hybrids available in the country at present, I decided to start with the 168 gr VLD's, which I had managed to get 3 packets of .
Barrel was broken in carefully using (freely available) Nosler 150 gr and then time to get serious with the Berger 168 gr.
Plenty of 2209 in the cupboard and plenty of internet mention of its suitability, so decided to run with it first up.
Seating depth was set to a light jam of approx 0.005"
Loaded up 3 rounds ea of 51.5 gr, 51.8 gr, 52.1 gr, 52.4 gr & 52.7 gr. and fired at separate targets at 100 yds looking for an indication of a node.
All shots were chronographed on a Shooting Chrony Beta Master, and speeds of each batch of 3 shots are written below each target.
As per the photos below, it seemed that 52.4 gr was a nice rounded, tight group and hopefully was close to the node I was hoping to find.
I then loaded up 5 shots each at 52.2 gr, 52.4 gr and 52.6 gr and these were shot at 300 yards to hopefully give me some sort of meaningful F Class result. The wind was pretty bloody terrible, running 10+ mph and gusting from 9:00 to 11 oclock, so the hold-off was approx 8".
The 52.2 gr came in best, with a 5 shot group of 1.1", or 0.37moa. Average velocity was 2825 fps, with an ES of 29
Then the 52.4 gr next , with a 5 shot group of 1.4", or 0.46 moa. Notably the velocities this time averaged 2844, with an ES of 31, so some 25 fps slower than the 3 rounds fired an hour earlier at 100 yds.
Finally the 52.6 gr load, with a 5 shot group of 1.7", or 0.57 moa. Velocity averaged 2868, and the lowest ES at 9
Sorry about the large photos........i have no idea how to get them to view smaller using this Imageshack thing !!


Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Then the 52.4 gr load


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Now we are cooking !!
On to the 52.7 gr load


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Spread vertically, so getting outside the node ??

So then it was on to the 5 shot groups at 300 yds, looking either side of the 52.4 gr which was the best at 100 yds.

The first load trialled, at 52.2 gr would be the best.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
0.37 moa and 2825 fps avg

Then the 52.4 gr load at 300 yds


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
1.4" group, or 0.46 moa, and average velocity of 2844 fps.
Finally the 52.6 gr load, with group starting to open up now, at 1.7", or 0.57 moa


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Ran out of time for now, so in the next few days I will try fine tuning with 0.1 gr increments, either side of the 52.2 gr load.
Hopefully next time the wind might leave me alone, but for now it seems that 52.2 gr of 2209 with the 168 gr Berger VLD's just might be competetive if i can do my bit properly.
And ahhhh....yes.....I forgot to mention.........to take out the operator error as much as possible so we could focus on the loads, I got the Hall of Fame Benchrester who is also my Gunsmith, to do all of the trigger pulling this time round. I reckon he should try some F Class.
Rgds
Tony

[RDavies]

It seems to like about the same load as my 284 Shehane (52.4gn) Once you get to around 150-200 shots through your Maddco, you will likely find it will speed up 50-70 fps and you will probably have to either drop your load down to keep the same node, or bump it up slightly to get to the next one.

[ecomeat]

Rod,
I will certainly be watching for that increased velocity as the barrel breaks in. It would be super easy to monitor it, if I could get my bloody Magneto Speed Chrony to give me a reading on a thick barrel (they don't like to read anything thicker than 1" at the muzzle). I have tried all sorts of changes to settings but all to no avail. Otherwise I could happily shoot my F Class strings with it attached for every shot.

Would you be game to guess where the next node might be, going up ?
Regards
Tony

[RDavies]

Around 2940-2960 fps with the 168gn VLDs will be the next node. It will likely be a warm load with your Maddco barrel though so all the usual precautions.

[TOM]

Curious....... How do you know that a node exist at a particular speed, from barrel to barrel, manufacturer to manufacturer, length to length, projectile to projectile, powder to powder etc, etc, With all the variables, it seems like one hell of a guess to me and im more than interested to learn how you come to a conclusion that a node is here and there????

[RDavies]

For starters, I,m on my 6th 284 barrel shooting slightly jammed 168s with 2209 powder and 5 of these have won at least one Queens prize, while the other couldnt hit the side of a barn if I was standing inside it.
Every barrel of mine around 28-30" and straight taper (no tuner weights or flutes) come into tune around 120-130 fps gaps.

6BR 2830 fps
6Dasher 2950 fps
6x47 3080 fps (108gn) 3200fps (95gn)
6.5 WSSM 2820 fps
284 180gn VLD 2700 and 2820 fps
284 168 gn 2820 and 2950 fps
7mm/300 wsm 2950 and 3070 fps
308 2800 fps (27" barrel) 2960 and 3080 fps 31" barrel
All these had their bullets jammed. If the bullets were jumped, the node was around 20-30 fps higher due to the higher bullet exit speed needed to keep the same barrel time with the slower starting pressure curve. If I used moly or HBN, the node went slightly higher as well for the same reason. If I use a slower powder such as 2213sc, with a slower build up, the node was slightly higher again.If the barrel is shorter, the node is slightly lower. If I use a Maddco or True-flight 7mm, the node will be slightly lower than with a looser Broughton for example. My fluted barrels came into tune slightly lower. Using my friends crony, the nodes are 40 fps higher.The barrels vibrate at the same speed, with barrel times being what determines the node. Using a tuner, especialy if it hangs out in front, you can move the node around.
I have been able to get most barrels very close to tune over a crony with only slight tweeks on paper, today being a good example with 2 different bullets in my F/TR gun. A few weeks ago I had a new 7mm barrel go way out of tune once it picked up velocity as it ran in. Due to the 50kph switchy winds on the practice day, I wasnt able to tune it on paper, but got it very close using a crony with the tripod held down with rocks and logs. A week later due to ruined cases, I had to drop it down to the next node and got it very close again over a crony.Of course on rare occaisions, things dont go to plan and they have come into tune around 40-50 fps different to expected, whether this was due to a very tight or loose barrel or whatever, I dont know, could have been the crony???

[ecomeat]

Where else in the world could you get the detailed shooting information that Rod Davies has just freely put down on paper..... A lifetimes hard earned experience all laid out in a single extremely valuable post that could easily help hundreds of shooters. It should save a lot of people from a lot of frustration and a whole heap of wasted bullets.
Thanks mate, you are a Champion.
Tony Berry

[DannyS]

Yep, thanks Rod.

You have supplied a life times of knowledge in you reply. Knowledge gained from experience and hard work. Thankyou, hopefully, some of us can put it to good work.

Cheers
Danny

[Chris S]

Guys,

Are 284 Win./Shehane shooters using stock Winchester brass or
6.5-284 Lapua etc. brass necked up?

cheers,
Chris

[ecomeat]

Chris,
Mine is a straight 284, and I necked up the Lapua 6.5 x 284 brass, which was easily available here in SEQld. I didn't really try to find Winchester 284 brass, but had been told it was difficult to source and didnt worry about it.
I actually ran a 270 expander Mandrel as a "step 1" , ........... I had one sitting there, and it was no big issue to do the 270 step first.....and then used a K & M 284 expander mandrel to finish off. That meant that i could then safely use a k & m neck turner.
I have got a 0.313" neck , so had to lightly turn down to 0.013 which gives me 0.003 clearance ( 0.284 + 0.013 + 0.013 = 0.310) and that seems to be regarded as a sensible clearance to have. Lots of US talk re many 284's not shooting well due to insufficient clearance of only 1 or 2 thou.
Lots of Internet chatter re the dreaded donut being a certainty with necked up Lapua 6.5 x 284 brass, but after one firing I don't "yet" have any issue. Stuart Elliott from BRT here in Brisbane has ordered me a custom sized inside reamer which will work as a donut cutter when I have deal with the problem. The plan will be to use an expander mandrel to a precise measurement, not quite to the bottom of the neck, then use the inside reamer to remove said donut.
Until a donut actually appears, I can get on with enjoying the new (for me) calibre
Tony

[RDavies]

I think just about all of us use necked up Lapua 6.5x284 brass.

[AlanF]

Where else in the world could you get the detailed shooting information that Rod Davies has just freely put down on paper..... A lifetimes hard earned experience all laid out in a single extremely valuable post that could easily help hundreds of shooters. It should save a lot of people from a lot of frustration and a whole heap of wasted bullets.
Thanks mate, you are a Champion.
Tony Berry

I'll second that. Rod's one of the people who wants his success to be due to his own shooting ability, not his gear's. Some say that F-Std is a more level playing field than F-Open, but when you have Rod and others helping to raise the performance of everyone's gear, then it reduces equipment advantage and helps to level the playing field in F-Open also.

Alan

[RDavies]

Where else in the world could you get the detailed shooting information that Rod Davies has just freely put down on paper..... A lifetimes hard earned experience all laid out in a single extremely valuable post that could easily help hundreds of shooters. It should save a lot of people from a lot of frustration and a whole heap of wasted bullets.
Thanks mate, you are a Champion.
Tony Berry

I'll second that. Rod's one of the people who wants his success to be due to his own shooting ability, not his gear's. Some say that F-Std is a more level playing field than F-Open, but when you have Rod and others helping to raise the performance of everyone's gear, then it reduces equipment advantage and helps to level the playing field in F-Open also.

Alan

Just for you Alan, I use salt as a filler in my 284 and put the primers in backwards to get a gentler ignition. Might want to try that at the next Queens when we meet.
I still want to have the best rifle on the line, no doubt there, but I try to help F Open shooters to get their gear working so that they realise the full potential of their gear. Some have struggled to find a combination which works with their F Open rifles and gone back to 308s where the combinations of what works are already common knowledge. All to often, we see F std rifles shooting better than a lot of F Open rifles, so where is the incentive to stick with the F Open gun. If more F Open shooters get there gear working well, the numbers will hopefully increase.

[Matt P]

There is a differece between a 284 Win case and necking up the 6.5 x 284 Lapua or Norma, the 284 case measures about 0.496 (or less) at the base and Lapua and Norma measures 0.499-0.500 so if the reamer is for the Win case it doesn't work well with the Lapua case and vis-versa.
As far as I'm concerned if Lapua or RWS don't make cases I'm not interested in the caliber.
Matt P

[bruce moulds]

ever since rod had one drink too many, and divulged how to index primers, i have never looked back.
don't worry rod, your secret's safe with me.
keep safe,
bruce.