Peddo is on the Board!!!

[AlanF]

VRA Chairman Frank Metzke made some announcements today regarding the recent NRAA Council meeting. Of great interest to us is that Bob Pedersen was voted in to one of the three vacant NRAA Board positions. Congratulations Peddo !! This will I'm sure be of great benefit to F-Class, as Bob will give F-Class representation at Board level, and importantly, from now on we should see a more informed approach to F-Class matters by the NRAA. There may even be an F-Class Portfolio created, with Bob being the obvious holder.

Also, I understand that the submission on F-Open adopting the ICFRA target was passed, and will be in the next release of the SSRs. And I believe that scoring the Super V as 6.1 (for both F-Classes) will be in the SSRs as well.

Of interest to all, including TR, is that the ICFRA target trial is over, and that they will be adopted unchanged (I presume that means the outer rings too).

So there you have it. Its all good news for F-Class in my opinion - our future looks bright.

[IanP]

That is great news Alan! Thanks for the update.

IanP

[Chopper]

This comment could start the ball rolling again i Know, BUT, why 6 ????, I just had a fright at the ACT Queens being scored with a 50.7 instead of a 60.7 , a loss of 10 points, that at the time put me from somewhere near the top of the board to somewhere near the bottom and a range agg, the card was marked by a fullbore shooter and corrected by a fullbore shooter and then signed by me, but the ACT office , mainly fullbore shooters as i remember, seen a corrected 50.7 as a 60.7 and i was awarded with the 50.7,i fronted the office and was told , you signed the card and have to wear it, yes i did because it looked right to me apart from all the scribble all over it , myself and Barry D ime sure came up with this idea of the SUPER V some 6 years ago or more if i do remember ,and there is still confusion with Fullbore shooters, WHY cannot we all score the same,????????????????. SEGREGATION has caused problems, and will continue to do so,some say because that's what the new F shooters are used to, big deal , we have fullbore shooters that have been around for a bloody lot longer than 6 years and are going to be a lot longer ,if the 6 comes in then i think i will go shoot 10s , Chop. WHAT A JOKE ,bulleye 6,

[AlanF]

Paul,

How (exactly) do you want the 50.10 implemented? As it was done at Canberra, there was no need for the markers to know what class of shooter was shooting, and there was no need for scorers to know what sort of F-Class shooter was shooting - so the only things different from the old days before F-Class are :

1. Marker marks a Super V with a white spotter and coloured indicator - everything else for markers is the same as always - easy.

2. For TR shooters, scorer scores everything same as always, ignoring colour changes for the Super V - easy.

3. For ALL scope shooters, everything up to the bulls-eye is scored same as TR, centre is scored as 6, and Super V as X. Not rocket science, but as with any change, will require a little explanation and concentration initially.

So how would 50.10 be done? If you're suggesting F Class simply uses the same target and scoring as TR, then you'd find that F-Class 50.10 shoot-offs would be commonplace, time consuming and boring. Another option is to inform the markers before every shooter whether he is F-Class, and adjusting the marking system accordingly - this would be a big task for the RO, and in my opinion an unacceptable complication for the markers. So that leaves segregation of F-Class from TR - exactly what we're trying to end.

Alan

[Barry Davies]

G'day Paul
If we do it your way we would then have a value disc which has two values for each position-- for example bottom right corner is a 5 for FB and a 4 for FC -- same applies for each other position.
How confusing would that be for a TR shooter??
When you think about it there would be less confusion if the FB people scored the same as we do-- give the V bull a value.
Once you get the different disciplines scoring each ring the same then you can put whatever value you want on the rings--- ideally V, 10, 9, 8, etc
Currently we have each discipline scoring each ring the same EXCEPT the V bull which is 6 for FC--- much less confusing.
Generally FB shooters have come to grips with the 6 and X value for FC and situations like you experienced in Canberra are few and far between.
It's all a matter of education at club level and while certain clubs continue to score a V as a V instead of 6 ( for FC ) then we are going to have mistakes.
Barry

[Barry Davies]

Further to my last post.
When you consider it FC is way ahead of TR in our development, in that we value the V bull with an extra point ( 6 ).
In this day and age, almost without question, the top TR shooters score more V bulls than they do Bulls but they get no value for that-- just a V bull. The equipment available now to TR shooters is capable of grouping the V bull, but they still only get a V for that.
Imagine TR shooting a Queens on a target that gave full value for the V bull ( like a 6 ) the leader board would probably change somewhat??
Barry

[Woody_rod]

Chopper, this is pretty simple stuff for us, but not for people that still live in 1963, and think they are being issued 303 ammo from the army....we have plenty of people like that still shooting in WA.

There were a few issues like this initially in WA, with scores incorrectly recorded. There were a few in the latest WA Queens, mainly due to the spreadsheet used, that was initially designed to record the species of animals entering the ARK, used by Noah's misses. WARA tend to embarrass themselves and shooters at times with their outdated ideas and administration techniques. If you think I take any opportunity to have a go at WARA, you would be right - sorry for this OT section.

However, we now have little trouble with 6 vs V and X vs V, because we spent a lot of time on making sure EVERYONE knew how to score them.

On 50.10s, unlike the massive bulleye and V used at Bisley (for example), we have few shoots offs in FC or TR these days. Seems the sizing of the target is about right now, as it does show the better shooters with higher scores, however they are recorded.

Oh, BTW, to get the post back on topic, congrats to Bob for his appointment. I think this will be a huge benefit to the FC community.

[ger]

For what it's worth, I quite like the way FC is scoring with the Super-V concept. I don't find it complicated at all.

I think it is only a matter of time before TR decide that they would like it also. That is, further delineation of the V and super-V. With the advances in technology available even to non-scope shooters, the top shooters are already clambering for the 8 to 10 V's.

Rather than adopt something stupid like a score-v-sv notation I think that TR, if they decide they _do_ want the SV, simply adopt the FC (Std) method of scoring (60-10). I have also heard argument for a decimal scoring system but I think that might be pushing things a bit.

But... it seems to me that there is a lot of inertia to overcome to enact change like this in the TR world and it might not happen in my lifetime. Nevertheless, this inertia that I see everywhere in the TR world (and some frustration with it) is causing me to very seriously consider F-class myself now.

Geoff.

[AlanF]

...this inertia that I see everywhere in the TR world (and some frustration with it) is causing me to very seriously consider F-class myself now.

Geoff.

Do it now Geoff - life's too short to dilly dally around. Summer's coming - get rid of that sweaty shooting jacket and join the shooters with scopes, and importantly, with smiles on their faces .

Alan

[Chopper]

Don't get me wrong, I know what you are all saying , but what i am getting at is the 6 thing is not used anywhere in the world as far as i know as a major scoring value , Do you know anywhere ? what do they do in the USA ?, i wonder if they would like a 6, it sounds like a crook shot to me, just my thoughts as an old fart Woody ,Chop.

[Barry Davies]

Fact is Paul the V bull has always been valued as 6, right from the inception of FO rules in SSR's --- long before FS came into being. The FB target with the V as 6 was an option for FO but that rule was deleted from SSR's at the last printing. ( for some obscure reason )
The earliest rule book I have is 1999 and this is BEFORE FS came into being. Rule 21.3.4.1 states that -- " where standard NRAA FB targets are used ( for FO ) -- where a competitor shoots a V Bull, they will score 6 points--- "
So the score of 6 has been around for a long time and when FS came into being in 2000 this rule was simply carried over.
Who cares what the rest of the world does.
Remember Bendigo 3 years ago when the 5 for a centre was trialed--never got past first base did it? All that little episode did was hasten doomsday for the # 3 run PM.
Barry

[ger]

Well, as an ex-pat K1W1 (with a very slight accent I am told) I happen to like 6.... when I'm lucky enough to get one.

G.

[johnk]

Chop,

Bout time you looked about a bit, mate.

The Yanks score 10 down in the same way ICFRA scores 5 down, that is, a Palma/Highpower 10 is one ring bigger than an F class 10 & the weeny ring right in the guts doesn't count for Palma shooters. The end result of that is that F class shooters are considered a pain at a lot of lower level events (if they're catered for as a discipline at all) & at the top end, they have entirely separate championships, just like ICFRA does.

All told, I reckon that, considering that Australia didn't go 10 down a time back because there was overwhelming opposition to it, that scoring the way we do & pretty seamlessly including all disciplines at one time is a freakin' miracle.

John

[RDavies]

Congrats to Bob. He has a back ground in TR, now shoots F std, and is pro F open, so I know he will be an asset to all disciplines.

[haemish762]

Why not just get metric targets, X, 10, 9 etc. It would be nice to have standard sized targets and rings which ever country you visit instead of UK, NZ and Aus all having different sized targets. It seems to work ok for the ISSF events!

H