wind control

[bruce moulds]

while i believe that fclass shooters are as a group the best long range shooters in the world, i equally believe we have a way to go in wind management.
this came to me when looking at the results of the recent shooting in phoenix.
among the top sling shooters were trudi fay, brian litz, and of course nancy.
these same people are often seen coaching fclass teams, as is mid tompkins.
what i have seen in the states and here is that if you want a good fclass team, get a sling shooter to coach it.
hopefully when we nail the coaching aspect we will be as a group even better long range shooters.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Brad Y]

I wonder if Linda can get James Corbett seconded to the national team as wind coach...

Interesting thought you put forward though. I must admit, I think most competitive f class shooters are competent at wind reading, but personally I struggle patience wise when the conditions change and I have one or two shots left to finish. Dialling into a condition I can get but its the urge to get those last couple of shots away right at the end is my killer. Someone needs to get semi autos into the SSR's so I can get my shots away quicker.

[IanP]

Bruce, I understand if you want better wind control that charcoal tablets will help

Ian

[Range Mum]

As you know, Ive done 25 yrs in TR and it has helped sooooo much in Fclass, and yes I love it. Injuries forced me to change.

I do MR, Benchrest, Optical, 300UIT, Fclass and was TR & fly

SAfrica has TR coaches, USA has TR coaches, Ireland etc etc.

We have a problem in Aust that "some" still think that Fclass is below them once they have done so much TR & are only fixed in that discipline.

I for one have approached many TR top coaches and asked to coach FClass the answer is always "NO not interested for Fclass".

But recently Ive seen many TR shooters try to have ago at Fclass "coz its so easy"and when they have tried it - often go home with their tails between their legs because its not as easy as it looks and as they think !!!

If we had full time sponsorship for coaches - you would see the line up at Association offices. Some of us that are good at coaching - never get asked

[DaveMc]

Actually Bruce, The best Fclass wind coaches I know have both TR and Fclass experience but I wouldn't say that is a golden rule and I would say top quality coaches can come from either field. All the names you mention have many years experience coaching F class teams as well. (and I am sure we would all welcome with open arms any chance that James Corbett might come over and start coaching F! ).

But lets twist this around a little and make it a positive for the sport. Lets get your opinion (and others) on how F classers should train to be good wind readers and indeed good future coaches (after all we need to start thinking about the next generations and bringing them through like any sport).

I will start the ball rolling with some suggestions:

Tip 1) You cant control the wind (contrary to the title of this thread). Sooner or later you will run into bad conditions it is better to be prepared and practiced than bomb it completely!
Tip 2) Treat club days as training days. Try and shoot within a certain time frame (e.g. 20-45 seconds after the target comes up) and make a wind call and go with it - Not earlier and not later Take a punt even if the wind is extreme. Scores will suffer but you will be a better wind reader for it. And better at saving those valuable points when it hits the fan. Even better shoot bisley style occasionally where there is a forced break between shots.
Tip 3) Make those wind calls in minutes.
Tip 4) travel around to a few different ranges. The harder the better.

[bruce moulds]

jenni,
i am not so sure they think it is below them.
it could easily be that they are scared of failure with our gear on our target, and infamiliarity with above. i don't blame them really, even if it is just because our dials turn the opposite way.
dave,
i used the word wind contol or management deliberately for the reason you said. i do however feel thatwe fclassers tend to think we have the tiger by the tail a little more than we need to.
shooting in the dirtiest conditions is the most conducive to learning. as you say, making a windcall and living with it is bad for the ego, but good for learning.
on the subject of ego, it also teaches how to deal with pulling a shitter. learn from it but leave it behind.
know what is on your sight at all times.
shoot blak powder. what is a 3 in fclass is probably a clean miss with a bpcr.
and when you change sight settings you do just that, in a big way.
this sounds silly, but it really makes changes get your attention.
alwys wind for wind. this goes with knowing what wind you have on. this is what tr shooters have to do.
a few ideas, but hardly any of the total yet to learn.
bruce.

[IanP]

Bruce, you had your name down to wind coach for the 2013 Australian F-Class team. I would be very interested in you continuing this thread on whats the best course of action F-Class can take to train future wind coaches.

Ian

[DaveMc]

OK Bruce, fair call but black powder is not really an option for most shooters in F class training even though I am sure it would teach you to read the wind. (And I am equally sure you would love us all to be doing it and most of us would find it fascinating) Perhaps this principle can be put into play elsewhere though.

e.g. pick up a 223 or 308 at 1000+ yards and make pure wind calls as much as possible.


Coached shooting is also a big part of TR shooting whereas in many parts of Aust it is only just gaining momentum in F.

[Brad Y]

I would love to see something formal in wind reading training. I know there are those little dial indicators that you can buy from state rifle associations, and charts around that tell you where you will be blown at different direction winds. Apparently there is a game on the NRA site in the US or something which is supposed to be good, but I run a mac computer and it wont work. If anyone has any links etc would appreciate it. Oh and a course on being patient. Anyone got anything on that

[bartman007]

I have had a little experience with F Class coaching over the past few years, and here are a few of my thoughts FWIW. As I've gone from TR to FC, there have been a few things to work on:

No one has mentioned this yet, however I think it is high up the list of considerations: Shooter Coach relationship. How does the shooter respond when told to "Go On". How does the FC shooter respond when the coach has clearly miss read the conditions? (because the F Classer gets to see it straight away) How does the shooter / coach perform under stressful conditions (weather / event importance / health). How does the shooter respond when there is a string of X's or they ONLY have 1 more shot to fire, so just let it go.

One of the key points I try to get across to the shooter prior to the event, is that I'm there to get the best possible score for the shooter on that range at that time. We both have the ability to make mistakes, so it is a joint effort to get the maximum score. I won't give you a hard time for a bad shot (due to technique / reloading / armouring / preparation / etc), and it should go both ways. It is important to compare your shoot at a particular time with that of other shooters on other targets at that time. We all know how the conditions can change drastically throughout the day, and a particular range, and shoot!

In regard to sights and turrets, well that can be problematic!!! One comment above was that we should know how much wind we have on.... As I've coached a number of F Class Std and Open shooters, I see all too often that the wind ZERO is not ZERO on this rifle but 1.5R, and on another it is 3L, etc etc. Depending on the barrel that is being used, the shooter typically winds the ZERO to the appropriate number prior to getting down to shoot.

So now as a coach with multiple shooters in your team, how are you going to instinctively know where each shooters ZERO is ???? Yep it is a challenge, however with better preparation, I know I can address this issue. With TR it was EASY, look down at the vernier and you could see if it was 7 or 8 points on, and left or right.

[johnk]

So now as a coach with multiple shooters in your team, how are you going to instinctively know where each shooters ZERO is ????

Seems to me that the first exercise in the first practice session is to verify zero - the same as for TR.

[bartman007]

Oh and a course on being patient. Anyone got anything on that

Brad,

When I find that I'm no longer thinking about the conditions and start to think about the score or the number of shots left to fire /etc, I know I have to concentrate again. This goes for coached shooters too.

It's all in the head isn't it, so what is it that you are meant to be doing? (Homer Simpson moment Tra La La mmmmm Donuts mmmmm Beer)

Probably because we are blokes, we are easily distracted.

When we are lying down on the mound, and in the middle of a shoot, there is only one thing we need to concentrate on: our shooting procedure

Get back to focusing on your procedure and you will forget about firing that last shot!

1. Get rifle lined up on target.
2. Read the conditions and put on some wind.
3. Get the shot away.
4. Read the conditions.
5. Evaluate the resulting shot.
6. Continue

When a shooter I am coaching gets a string of X's, I try to focus them on the next shot rather than how well they are going. Give them a little QDOS for the effort so far, however let them know a little of what you are doing to keep them in there. "The wind is changing a bit, we need to keep on top of it." There, I've just got the shooter to focus back on the job at hand.

[bartman007]

Hi John,

Seems to me that the first exercise in the first practice session is to verify zero - the same as for TR.

Unfortunately that will only assist at that practice session

These sessions can typically be months apart, so the shooter has heaps of time to adjust it again to suit their weekly shooting regime.

One lesson that I learnt from Mackay, was to use the practice time to get each shooters ZERO turned so that it actually shows ZERO.

At Mackay as the shooters all had good shoots in the Queens, I was confident we were ready to go. My experience has since led me to believe I could have done more, to make my job easier, and probably improved the outcome for the team! I could have set each shooters zero during the practise session, which would have made for a consistent outcome when firing Sighters! And of course in Open class, I needed to do this for each rifle and scope combination that the shooter was going to use in the competition.

If the shooter only has 1 scope, and is using two different calibers for say shorts and longs, then you need to accommodate that in your process.

After all, the coach needs to know where the zero is, it is irrelevant to the shooter, as they are not tasked with that job.

[aaronraad]

While we're thinking outside the box for wind coaching, has anyone thought of giving someone outside the sport a crack

The professional guys/girls sailing anything including a yatch, skiff, catamanran or even a dinghy are constantly reading the wind. They're skill might be in a different context but they take it very seriously given lives depend on their skill.

...and you can never have enough people walking around the mound in white caps, smoking a pipe, in a turtleneck woollen pullover, stating "I like the cut of your jib!"

[Brad Y]

Mike

I might have to see if I can get one of the guys to actively coach me. Its probably the main thing our club is missing as most shooters think club days are the competition days. New shooters get a bit of coaching but thats about it. And to be honest I have never asked for it either.