FCWC 2017 in Canada - Nominations

[Brad Y]

This discussion of coaching is very positive. One thing I note in the west is we dont have much in the pipeline as backup coaches for the future- there are a few TR coaches and FS coaches but nobody dedicated for FO. Daunting as it may be, new blood needs to be recruited, probably Australia wide I would think, as potential coaches for the future. The states would have to manage this I feel, though of course it could be promoted back at club level. All I have seen (limited) is the good individual wind readers get called on to take coaching roles. Not sure if this is done in the other states. But I feel that there needs to be more available to develop and promote coaching as a side to actual shooting.

When the news came through that Aus won the WC in Raton it was very inspiring and I wanted to stand up and be counted as a contender for the 2017 team. However I have reservations now as I feel to have a good experienced portion of the 2013 team go back and repeat the results would be more beneficial overall. But another team of shooters (similar to an Australia A cricket team) and coaches who are almost at that level, receiving the same training, doing the same practice and learning the same methods would be very beneficial to the future of the sport.

Just an opinion.

[aaronraad]

From what I see as a coach, there is still a lot of work to bring our shooters up to their best potential. Rifle / Rest / Scope adjustment / Load Tuning / Release technique just to mention a few items.

Are we right assume that a 'coach' should be responsible for extracting the best from a shooter? I'm not saying that a coach would not help a shooter achieve their best but should we break that down a bit. Specifically a into two separate coaches, 'shooting coach' and a 'wind coach/knob twister'. Having an expert in both fields is great but it is unlikely.

Maybe there is something to learn from real-time/dynamic decision making models (DDM). Are shooters nothing more than part of a feedback loop to confirm a correct wind adjustment made by the decision maker/wind coach?

Consider the SR-71 Blackbird where 7 computers were used to make real-time microsecond decisions because of floating decimal point errors, time lag and redundancy. The system took a vote and the majority won. 99.999% of the time they got it right, for those other times when they should have listened to the minority...well it was all over very quickly at >3 mach.

[BATattack]

There are some fantastic wind readers out there but some are only comfortable rolling the dice and making a judgment that will effect their own score for the fear of reprisal.

Also everyone's brain functions differently. They may be a great coach but if their mental system doesn't function fluidly with the coaching practice's being used their performance may be affected.

I was lucky to be squared with Alan seamen during the 2012 queens where I scored for him for 3 days. His natural methodical style of shooting, plotting, making an adjustment, checking then shooting would make someone like him better suited to coaching than someone like me who is happy to hold up to and outside the black and rarely winds or plots.

Would you think the selection of shooters be based on their individual performance at queens or major matches or would it be based on their ability be coached/ good team player and be able to put down awesome vert?

[IanP]

Do you think it would be worthwhile selecting a cartridge/ bullet that people can start loading and shooting with to obtain components and develop familiarity with the cartridge?

Do you see the team sticking with 284 or 7saum or stepping up to a 30mag?

As discussed with Linda and Rod - This will definitely be a Captains call but one of the things I think needs to get put out there early. I see lots of top level shooters spending money on equipment that may or may not be usable depending on the Captains direction (and Connaughts range limitations).

Dave, I have seen this mentioned a couple of times on the forum about the range in Canada having ballistic restrictions. My take on this is that if Canada has put up its hand and won the right to host this ICFRA event then it must conform to ICFRA rules.

Do you think the host countries for the Olympic and Commonwealth games change the rules of sporting contests because they cant provide an adequate venue for the game in question.

Meaning no offence to anyone who thinks Canada can do as it pleases I suggest we question ICFRA immediately on this point and get an answer asap! My personal view is that the Canadians will probably get a temporary approval for the upto 8mm calibre F-Open guns for this ICFRA event.

I would like Linda, Rod and Jenni to get something off to the NRAA so we can formally raise our concerns about the ICFRA rules not being changed for Canada. No one else has raised this issue on other international forums so I'm betting all is ok, but we need to ask the question!

Ian

[bartman007]

Aaronraad,

Shooters are not just machines (trigger pullers). They have ego's, and when a 5 or a 4 comes up, it impacts their level of concentration. Whereas a machine's feedback loop will take note of the stray shot and try to adjust for it, thinking that it is the conditions not the shooter that is at fault.

A

wind coach/knob twister

needs to do many things apart from reading wind. Stroking the ego of the shooter to keep them feeling good about themselves and performing at the expected level is part of that job.

Giving them a little feedback about the extreme conditions may be another important process, to alert the shooter to the fact that a wild shot may happen due to the difficult conditions (Look at team x, they just dropped 6 points, we only dropped 3). For a 3 to hit the scoreboard needs some quick response, and if a 2 turns up on another teams board this helps to make the shooter feel a little better.

The coach needs to understand how the shooter works. Some shooters like to get the shots away as quick as possible, others can take their time as the conditions dictate. The coach needs to be flexible and work with the conditions and shooter.

[johnk]

I believe that Australian Classification ranges incorporate the same restrictions as Canada (& Bisley) & this has been incorporated in Australian range approvals since they were civilianised. It could be worthwhile checking to see if your range approval & maybe range standing orders incorporate a maximum velocity limit for a given projectile weight.

It might just be that those responsible for the running of the ranges might not be aware of some velocities being achieved.

[IanP]

I believe that Australian Classification ranges incorporate the same restrictions as Canada (& Bisley) & this has been incorporated in Australian range approvals since they were civilianised. It could be worthwhile checking to see if your range approval & maybe range standing orders incorporate a maximum velocity limit for a given projectile weight.

It might just be that those responsible for the running of the ranges might not be aware of some velocities being achieved.

You have said this all before John and I did check for SA and our ranges are approved for F-Class usage including FO requirements of upto 8mm!

Getting back to the issue of Canada we need to ask the question of ICFRA to find out if any restrictions apply. I personally would be disappointed if Canada runs a restricted FO category and am hoping others feel likewise.

Getting back to Olympics and Commonwealth games event rules, how would you feel if Canada decided to shorten the 1500m race to 1450m for some reason or another. I want the same rules as were applicable at Raton to be applicable at Canada or any other country!!!!!!!!

Ian

PS John if your state has FO restrictions I'm sure SARA would be happy for you to relocate your Queens/State Championships event to Lower Light

[AlanF]

PS John if your state has FO restrictions I'm sure SARA would be happy for you to relocate your Queens/State Championships event to Lower Light

Ian,

That might work if Lower Light didn't have its own restriction (to 800 metres ).

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Alan.

[jasmay]

Thinking outside the box, I think one thing that could promote both team shooting and wind coaching is getting a 4 man teams event running on a state/local level, an open comp that any an team can enter.

I think there are plenty of groups of shooters/ mates that would live an event like this, at the same time your having fun, it's giving a lot of people the opportunity to learn the coaches shooing process, and obviously each team will have a coach....

Maybe a pipe dream?

[RAVEN]

That might work if Lower Light didn't have its own restriction (to 800 metres Very Happy ).

What restrictions that Al ?
our range goes back to 1200m hum or is it 1100m not sure anyway as far back as the road.

[DaveMc]

Ian - This is a valid point and if Connaught was open to full ICFRA conditions then I would be having a play with a big 30 myself. I have no official ruling but all I have spoken to (Canadians, Americans who are in the know) say the range restrictions WILL apply. I guess you should work through our ICFRA rep and try and get an answer and or lobby for this if you feel strongly enough about it. However I believe they can sneak it in under rule F1.7

F1.7. Any decision made by the controlling authority or the CRO for reasons of safety or security
takes precedence over any other paragraph in these Rules with which it conflicts, as do the
legislation and regulations of the host country with regard to the safety, handling,
possession, transport, assembly and firing of ammunition and firearms, including those
specific to a particular range.

[AlanF]

That might work if Lower Light didn't have its own restriction (to 800 metres ).

What restrictions that Al ?
our range goes back to 1200m hum or is it 1100m not sure anyway as far back as the road.

Didn't take long to get a bite on that.

[bruce moulds]

the only restriction at lower light is that it is illegal to shoot across roads, so we go back to 1100m near the road.
there are those in sara that would shorten the queens so that some people don't get carved up at the longest range.
I personally get carved up at all ranges, so it makes little difference to me.
keep safe,
bruce.

[aaronraad]

Aaronraad,

Shooters are not just machines (trigger pullers). They have ego's, and when a 5 or a 4 comes up, it impacts their level of concentration. Whereas a machine's feedback loop will take note of the stray shot and try to adjust for it, thinking that it is the conditions not the shooter that is at fault.

A

wind coach/knob twister

needs to do many things apart from reading wind. Stroking the ego of the shooter to keep them feeling good about themselves and performing at the expected level is part of that job.

Giving them a little feedback about the extreme conditions may be another important process, to alert the shooter to the fact that a wild shot may happen due to the difficult conditions (Look at team x, they just dropped 6 points, we only dropped 3). For a 3 to hit the scoreboard needs some quick response, and if a 2 turns up on another teams board this helps to make the shooter feel a little better.

The coach needs to understand how the shooter works. Some shooters like to get the shots away as quick as possible, others can take their time as the conditions dictate. The coach needs to be flexible and work with the conditions and shooter.

I'd still argue that team shooters should just be the best trigger pullers going around. Anything else is just a distraction for the wind coaches' concentration. Individual shooting is a whole other sport.

Do we have two lists of shooters for Australia, team and individual event shooters? A bit like the Davis Cup, where sometimes they have a separate doubles team to the mens or womens members.

Should only team shooting event performances come into the selection criteria, as opposed to individual shooting performances?

What would happen if you're good at both F-Class and TR, you missed out on the TR team and decided to make yourself available for the F-Class team?

[ecomeat]

I thought the ballistic "restriction" was a done deal.
When Craig McGowan interviewed the 2017 Canadian F Class Captain for his new website (7mm.com.au) they seemed to make it pretty clear that the Restrictions will definitely apply, and that the shooting will be done "Bisley style" with a big attempt made to restrict it to "two on the mound" at a time.
Check the full interview out at http://www.7mm.com.au/road-2017/. There is even a spreadsheet to check your "ballistic compliance".
So Canada and the USA have appointed their Captains already. I emailed Mik Maksimovic about the UK situation, and he replied that the UK Captains for both F Open and F/TR will be appointed next month.
I also emailed Mias Nieuwoudt, the South African F Class Secretary (he also farms Bonsmara cattle like we do) and they will nominate their F Class Captains in April after the RSA Nationals, and expect the NRA to confirm by June, with an absolute deadline of October 2014 for their appointment.
Would that information not be suitable conversation material for someone Ro point out to the NRAA that they need to act ?
Tony