FCWC 2017 in Canada - Nominations

[BATattack]

Aaronraad,

Shooters are not just machines (trigger pullers). They have ego's, and when a 5 or a 4 comes up, it impacts their level of concentration. Whereas a machine's feedback loop will take note of the stray shot and try to adjust for it, thinking that it is the conditions not the shooter that is at fault.

A

wind coach/knob twister

needs to do many things apart from reading wind. Stroking the ego of the shooter to keep them feeling good about themselves and performing at the expected level is part of that job.

Giving them a little feedback about the extreme conditions may be another important process, to alert the shooter to the fact that a wild shot may happen due to the difficult conditions (Look at team x, they just dropped 6 points, we only dropped 3). For a 3 to hit the scoreboard needs some quick response, and if a 2 turns up on another teams board this helps to make the shooter feel a little better.

The coach needs to understand how the shooter works. Some shooters like to get the shots away as quick as possible, others can take their time as the conditions dictate. The coach needs to be flexible and work with the conditions and shooter.

I've been shooting a bit of team stuff lately and honestly if doesn't phase me where the shot comes up and the last thing I want the coach to be thinking about after a wayward shot is saying sorry. All I'm watching is my vert. . . . . . Nothing else. No flags, no other targets, nothing. The ONLY thing I might comment on is if the coach hasnt noticed my group is slightly low or high of center.

If I'm holding X ring I've got my load running and trigger release 100% then I've done my job and for filled my role in the team.

[DaveMc]

I'd still argue that team shooters should just be the best trigger pullers going around.

Aaron - There is a whole lot more to a great team shooter than just being a trigger puller. I politely suggest anyone interested in lining up for the job have a read of Nancy Tompkins book for starters.

[Matt P]

The range restriction has been in place for a long time and was used at the first FCWC in 2002 so I don't believe anything would have improved, the range is under miltary control, not ICFRA's, which will limit the big 30's, back in 2002 6.5x284 was the go to cartridge so even when driven flat out didn't exceed the energy limit, for what it's worth I'd stick with the 7mm x 284 capacity cartridges.
Regards
Matt P

[Southcape]

I am going to go against the grain and say the time frame was perfect. As the team Captain I reopened nominations because we did not have enough to select from. This worked in our favour, because we had many nominations come through the second round. Many were expecting the board to say no to an Australia Team once they realised it was going ahead they jumped on board.

This is the last time a re opening will happen. If you wish to be on the next team, you will have to nominate when called.

As Cam said, the NRAA is working with us. We just have to wait for now until they release what they have planned. I can say that if you want to be shooting on the next team, you need to start your focus from mid this year. Your gear and you must be shooting. Results are being watched.

I agree with Dave Mc saying team members were burnt out. I can add my own name to this list which is why I disappeared from this forum. Time out is beneficial and normal.

[RAVEN]

Snap to that Linda

[RAVEN]

[BATattack]

The range restriction has been in place for a long time and was used at the first FCWC in 2002 so I don't believe anything would have improved, the range is under miltary control, not ICFRA's, which will limit the big 30's, back in 2002 6.5x284 was the go to cartridge so even when driven flat out didn't exceed the energy limit, for what it's worth I'd stick with the 7mm x 284 capacity cartridges.
Regards
Matt P

Looking at the range restriction spreadsheet it seems a 180gr 7mm at 3000 or a 215 .30 at 3000 would be about max.

The 7saum or 300wsm could fill that Window comfortably.

I shoot a 7saum and after toasting one barrel experimenting my others were really easy to get going. That being said a 30 would have much better barrel life to alow more room for tuning and would hopefully hold together better for long shot strings.

I thought berger might be holding back on the 195gr 7mm but if canada are going to enforce the safety template then we currently have access to as much BC that is needed.

[IanP]

Ian - This is a valid point and if Connaught was open to full ICFRA conditions then I would be having a play with a big 30 myself. I have no official ruling but all I have spoken to (Canadians, Americans who are in the know) say the range restrictions WILL apply. I guess you should work through our ICFRA rep and try and get an answer and or lobby for this if you feel strongly enough about it. However I believe they can sneak it in under rule F1.7

F1.7. Any decision made by the controlling authority or the CRO for reasons of safety or security
takes precedence over any other paragraph in these Rules with which it conflicts, as do the
legislation and regulations of the host country with regard to the safety, handling,
possession, transport, assembly and firing of ammunition and firearms, including those
specific to a particular range.

Dave thats all very interesting and a little worrying for F-Open shooters!

So far its all conjecture with "I believe, I understand" statements on this subject given by one and all. No one on this forum knows if restrictions will or wont apply in 2017!

What I'm saying is is lets find out thru the NRAA and ICFRA what if any restrictions will apply. Its a sad day for F-Open if we are opening the door to World F-Open championship events with different restrictions in place in every country that gets permission to hold it.

Am I the only one that thinks this way?

As far as contacting our ICFRA rep, (Pedo) he still has not responded to Barry Southern's question about adjustable rear platforms for rear sand bag use. That question was emailed to him months ago! I understand he is suffering from a serious health condition so I understand it may be difficult for him at the moment.

With Pedo out of action who is picking up his duties at the NRAA?

If we are to function as a serious team contender for the world championships then we need facts on what ICFRA rules are in place for Canada and if the range comes with ballistic restrictions as some think.

We also need a verified spreadsheet like Craig McGowan, (who is he?) has on his 7mm website to evaluate any restriction if it applies. Using his spreadsheet my 300WM launching 230gr hybrids (BC = 0.743) at 2850fps fits in with the template plot line ok.

Its time for some facts from ICFRA as to WTF applies in Canada! Now who is our ICFRA rep on the NRAA committee and will they please answer the question/s that have already been put thru to Pedo?

It time for facts and information to be given with authority to the Australian F-Class Team.

Ian

P.S. Dave your comment about trying a 30 cal if the restrictions did not apply still applies to the 7mm crowd. In the near future, (long before 2017) Berger will release its 195gr hybrid with approx BC = 0.750. That would restrict the bullet to under 2850fps to meet the template given on the spreadsheet I used.

This new bullet from Berger will start a revolution for long range FO shooters and its ballistic advantage will be entirely wasted if Canada is allowed to apply restrictions. We need to keep a view to the future and this bullet has already been produced and tested. Thats what I like about F-Open as its the F1 or MotoGP of F-Class. Lets not go down without at least voicing our disapproval to ICFRA for allowing such a thing to be viewed as acceptable!

[RAVEN]

Now who is our ICFRA rep on the NRAA committee

I believe it's Pedo Ian

[ecomeat]

We also need a verified spreadsheet like Craig McGowan, (who is he?) has on his 7mm website to evaluate any restriction if it applies.

Ian,
Craig McGowan is an F Open shooter living in Brisbane. He is a well respected good bloke who is Secretary of Brisbane Rifle Club and runs their Facebook Page. He works for Qantas as an engineer , and is developing the 7mm.com.au website as a means to grow a small business. All going well on his upcoming trip to the USA, he is most likely to be a regular supplier of Bartlein barrels to Australian shooters.
The comments regarding the 2017 FCWC, and the spreadsheet, were supplied to him by Eric Bisson , the Captain of the 2017 Canadian F Class Team, and Scott Bissett, the Chairman of the 2017 FCWC Organising Committee on behalf of the Dominion of Canada Rifle Association who will be running the whole event.
There is probably some small chance that everything that they stated might be fact, but feel free to ignore it as hearsay!

[aaronraad]

It the near future, (long before 2017) Berger will release its 195gr hybrid with approx BC = 0.750. That would restrict the bullet to under 2850fps to meet the template given on the spreadsheet I used.

This new bullet from Berger will start a revolution for long range FO shooters and its ballistic advantage will be entirely wasted if Canada is allowed to apply restrictions. We need to keep a view to the future and this bullet has already been produced and tested.

Don't bank on a release any time soon. Here is the interview with Litz in January: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/01/rise-of-the-machines-berger-doubles-bullet-making-capacity/ and he's not making any promises.

Berger now lists 6 different 185gr 30cal projectiles, which in itself puts extra strain on production efficiencies without trying to increase overall production volume. Litz can essentially design them faster than Strecker can produce them. Strecker won't make a new design until it suits Berger in terms of production, sales margin and market volume. Why release a 195gr 7mm super BC projectile when you already have the market captured with your 180gr 7mm Hybrid? Even if the NRAA are Berger's single biggest customer, that doesn't mean they will get first preference on a new release.

I see having a good source for barrel supplies being more important to flexibility over the next 3yrs. This will make it easier to deal with any changes made by the ICFRA, the DCRA or the Connaught Range. The ICFRA still doesn't list the 2017 FCWC on their web-site. Even our SSR's will change between now and then.

[bsouthernau]

Hi Barry, I hope you don't mind but I would like to use this comment as an example -

Of course I don't mind. I've never seen you post anything on this forum that wasn't constructive and made with a good heart.

Nothing is "unforgivable" and we all make mistakes (and I don't think barry meant it like that either).

Correct

First step to encouraging more coaches to have a go is to encourage a more forgiving environment.

Correct. Whatever the score my practice is to ALWAYS say "thank you" before retiring from the mound. Some trust doesn't go astray either. Doesn't apply in F Class of course but I hate seeing a TR shooter get down with a spotting scope.

Barry

[Matt P]

Ian
I would suggest contacting the Connaught Range as it decides what the safety template is, andhow they plan to deal with it, not ICFRA, as I stated before the template was in place and enforced at the 2002 FCWC. ICFRA runs the match, but just like here local safety rules would be inforced by the local governing body.
Matt P

[AlanF]

I think Matt is correct - contact the people who manage shooting at the Connaught Range. And we can surely assume that the two people interviewed HERE, particularly the Chairman of FCWC 2017 Organising Committee would have already done that, and this spreadsheet which they have produced will surely be correct.

Alan

[IanP]

Ian
I would suggest contacting the Connaught Range as it decides what the safety template is, andhow they plan to deal with it, not ICFRA, as I stated before the template was in place and enforced at the 2002 FCWC. ICFRA runs the match, but just like here local safety rules would be inforced by the local governing body.
Matt P

Matt, if I were to contact the Canadian Range or their Canadian Rifle Association, that would be inappropriate as I see it. I am not in a position of authority with our state or national associations and I see this as the appropriate means of raising our concern.

We need to get our info first hand thru our national association not thru some third party!

I'm surprised to see that as yet no one else appears to be concerned that Canada may be running a restricted F-Open class. That opens the door to any country that runs a future WFC Championship to change ICFRA F-Open rules because they cannot provide a suitable venue.

Maybe if we and other countries complain to ICFRA, who are the governing body for this event, that we want F-Open to remain open and not ballistically neutered, then we may be able to get it changed.

Its not about me not listening to the people who claim they know, its about not wanting to accept a lame F-Open implementation of our sport and present it as a World Championship event. Its about me being concerned with what the future holds for these competitions.

Is our sport that lame that it accepts a restricted F-Open class as being suitable for a world championships? If the majority of F-Open shooters dont care about this degradation to our class then so be it!

Ian