Neilsen MN600 Extractor problems

[crunchy]

Hi All
It's common knowledge that when shifting away from factory the ammo. The Omark's - Angle's and the Neilsens all suffer with extraction problems with reload ammo.
As there are still plenty of these rifles being used today,has anyone found a solution to this problem eg...
1. Stronger extractor spring
2. Modify bolt head and fit new extractor & spring

It would be interesting to hear how owners have gone about this problem
Thanks

[Chris W]

Common knowledge? - NO
Use only factory ammo - NO
Problem with reloads - NO
Its an Angel not an 'Angle'

If you full length resize your brass every second reload - this means neck size only once - you will never have a problem with any action or extractor style including Omark's. Also worth considering is the fact that any rifle action will have 'sticky' extraction if you are overloading your ammo - this means working beyond the safe pressure limit of your brass case by putting too much powder.

[Brad Y]

Set up a body of FL die to bump shoulders back 1 thou each reload. Cases will be easy to chamber and easy to extract (provided the load isnt too warm and you dont get sticky bolt lift)

If you reload and are getting sticky bolt lift with your loads and you already FLS (and you know you are bumping the shoulders back 1 thou each time (MEASURE DONT ASSUME)) then you probably need to re work a load that is accurate and doesnt run at such high pressure.

[crunchy]

Thanks Chris & Brad your response is appreciated.The rifle in question is a Neilsen .223 using Lapua brass, Remington 7.5 primers with 25.2gn of AR2208 (no sign of pressure) 14th into lands. This load is up there but I have had no problems in last 600 shots up until I used a body die to resize the cases after three reloads. Past three reloads I only used a fosters bushing bump die which was set by caming over on a new case

The body resizing die seems to be the problem, even though the re-sized cases chamber and extract freely without any problems. The case lube has also been cleaned of each case. Case lengths are 1.755ins.

Thoroughly cleaned chamber and Re-sized 50 for today's shoot 50% would not extract.

I thought that somebody might have put a stronger spring in the extractor claw to help extraction. I read in this forum that a Barnard user
put a stronger spring in for the extractor claw for better extraction.

I understand what you are saying about hot loads but that has not been the problem. It all points to the body die. Can the die resize the case crooked ( all cases looked OK)

Thanks again for your response

[Malcolm Hill]

25.2 gns of 2208 can be too hot a load in some rifles and you are jamming the projectiles which can make it worse. Things that can cause loads that have been previously ok to become too hot can be barrel fouling in the throat with carbon/copper, change of powder lot, or case neck thickening or lengthening causing a crimping effect on the projectile. If your rounds will chamber and extract ok before firing then it appears to be a pressure issue that is causing your problem. Mike the case heads before and after firing to verify that you have no pressure problem before blaming other issues. Make sure cases are trimmed to length and the necks have not thickened causing lack of clearance in the chamber. You may find one of the above issues causing the tight cases but if all is well you may have to back off the load a tad.
Regards Malcolm.

[Brad Y]

Buy an RCBS precision mic set in 223. Dont worry about the bit that measures seating depth, but measure the fired cases to see what the shoulders measure out to from the base of the case. Then run through your die and re measure. It should be 1 thou less consistently from case to case. Dont go any more than that. Too often I have seen people "full length" resizing and all they are doing is glorified neck sizing and thats it. You might need to adjust the die down tiny bit by tiny bit to get it actually doing its job. Doing it this way sorts it so you know everything is fine. The other thing you can try is running them through a small base body die to really push the cases back down. When I was shooting FS, I used a combo of redding body die and lee collet dies to do my cases. The collet dies produce bugger all runout when used correctly. And with my lyman crusher press, you dont rely on consistant pressure on the arm of the press to get each case right. I used to tumble all the cases to remove any dirt/soot off them, then run through the body die to bump the shoulder back, then do the neck die and finally charge and seat the projectile.

[crunchy]

Thanks Malcolm & Brad. The cases are all fine and to new case specs. Chamber and extract the same as new cases.
It's good to know that there are people willing to help that have been there and done that.
At times it takes a while for the light switch to come on (it's probably old age). Yes sticky bolt lift. Went back through my notes, my original loads of 25.0 gn all worked fine with no problems. Now that I think back problems started sometime after I went to 25.2gn load.
I have drained all powder out of remaining bullets and will go back to 25.0gn
as Malcolm has suggested a tad high a load.

Will let you know how it goes

Thanks to all that helped
Cheers

[crunchy]

Well it has taken awhile to get to the bottom of the problem and the answer can relate to any rifle.
The human factor When body sizing for the first time, I had adjusted the body die too far into the press, resulting in slightly ballooning the bottom of the case.
The trap is that they all chambered fine and extracted fine, but when fired
produced the problem.

The easy way to identify this type of extraction problem is to check the bottom of the case about 1/4" up from the bottom (.223 Case), you will notice a shiny ring about 1/4" wide all the way around the case bottom.

The result is that the case sticks in the chamber after firing and will not move back under pressure into the bolt for extraction. It took a bench rest mate of mine to solve this problem.
I hope this can help others with a similar problem.
Thanks to all that helped