Primer tool
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Re: Primer tool
Frankford Arsnel.do a very good tray fed adjustable hand primer. It also comes with virtually every case holder and the RCBS trays fit.
It gives good feedback but I have to say not as good as the 21st century.
I've got a 21st century but now only use it on the SAUM because its set for large primers. The Frankford does all the SR cases but like Pete, I've uniformed all my primer pockets and seat fully.
This, imo, is streets ahead of any other tray feed.
https://www.amazon.com/Frankford-Arsena ... B01B7OYUVC
It gives good feedback but I have to say not as good as the 21st century.
I've got a 21st century but now only use it on the SAUM because its set for large primers. The Frankford does all the SR cases but like Pete, I've uniformed all my primer pockets and seat fully.
This, imo, is streets ahead of any other tray feed.
https://www.amazon.com/Frankford-Arsena ... B01B7OYUVC
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Re: Primer tool
ned kelly wrote:I use the Sinclair one and single load each primer.
Up until recently, I used the KM Priming Gauge Tool (https://kmshooting.com/product/primer-gage/). It has the wondrous capability of measuring the relativity between primer & pocket, including possible rim thickness variations. I found it amazing when loading stout, as the Brits say, loads for match rifle while still achieving good spreads & SD.
Now my arthritis has gone to hell in a bucket, I use a Sinclair like you, modded to operate arse about with much greater leverage.
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Re: Primer tool
What a most interesting tool John and do u have the data ( enough data ) to prove this tool does produce lower ES/SD ?
Or should I just keep using my total piece-of-crap RCBS tray priming tool ?
Maybe this tool is right up there with the "Bob Green Comparator Tool" ?
Or should I just keep using my total piece-of-crap RCBS tray priming tool ?
Maybe this tool is right up there with the "Bob Green Comparator Tool" ?
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Re: Primer tool
Gyro wrote:What a most interesting tool John and do u have the data ( enough data ) to prove this tool does produce lower ES/SD ?
Or should I just keep using my total piece-of-crap RCBS tray priming tool ?
Maybe this tool is right up there with the "Bob Green Comparator Tool" ?
Just a word of warning on the RCBS. It's a good tool but one of it failure modes is for the cam to wear. You won't know till your primers stop going bang. Basically it wears, doesn't fully seat the primer and hey presto, multiple missfires.
That's what happened to me and i replaced the rcbs with the frankford. Fortunately the rcbs trays fit so i have one for cci br4s and one for S&B primers so it worked out well.
That's not to say the Frankford doesn't fail in the same way but it's adjustable so can be fixed rather than replaced.
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Re: Primer tool
I’ll second Ned Kelly’s comments. I’ve used a Sinclair primer tool for quite a few years. Very pleased with it.
Cheers
Danny
Cheers
Danny
You might as well be yourself, everyone else is already taken.
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Re: Primer tool
I have the K&M which I used for the FCWC which you can use to accurately set crush of primers to each individual case.
At home, for my non team shooting, I used the cheapo Lee hand primer with tray.
Is there a noticeable difference? Not to me
Hope this makes sense
When using a primer with a shell holder the way the primer depth is set is off the rim of the case and not the base which can vary due to the thickness of the rim giving different crush??
At home, for my non team shooting, I used the cheapo Lee hand primer with tray.
Is there a noticeable difference? Not to me
Hope this makes sense
When using a primer with a shell holder the way the primer depth is set is off the rim of the case and not the base which can vary due to the thickness of the rim giving different crush??
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC
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Re: Primer tool
Yes Tim. Since this thread I had a close look last night at my RCBS tray type unit and it’s actually bloody horrible. The way the two sliding side pieces move about with the excessive clearance they have would likely allow the case to cock over. But it seats primers and they all go bang and so long as they go bang everything’s ok ? Maybe I should be weighing my primers as of course ( LOL ) there's data to prove that helps too ?
I have seen and held the 21st century unit and can well imagine it seats primers with a great deal more precision. But will it make any difference on the target ? I doubt it. Perhaps some top shooter somewhere has proven ( and good luck with that ) it does, and they probably won’t tell us anyway.
I went to a shoot ‘tother day and a guy had a batch of loaded cases and they didn’t go bang because he had uniformed the primer pockets and gone too deep. Or at least that was what he reckoned was the reason, when a contributing factor could also be that the shoulder had been bumped too far in the FLS step, along with a few other possibilities ………
I have seen and held the 21st century unit and can well imagine it seats primers with a great deal more precision. But will it make any difference on the target ? I doubt it. Perhaps some top shooter somewhere has proven ( and good luck with that ) it does, and they probably won’t tell us anyway.
I went to a shoot ‘tother day and a guy had a batch of loaded cases and they didn’t go bang because he had uniformed the primer pockets and gone too deep. Or at least that was what he reckoned was the reason, when a contributing factor could also be that the shoulder had been bumped too far in the FLS step, along with a few other possibilities ………
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Re: Primer tool
Tim L wrote:Gyro wrote:What a most interesting tool John and do u have the data ( enough data ) to prove this tool does produce lower ES/SD ?
Or should I just keep using my total piece-of-crap RCBS tray priming tool ?
Maybe this tool is right up there with the "Bob Green Comparator Tool" ?
Just a word of warning on the RCBS. It's a good tool but one of it failure modes is for the cam to wear. You won't know till your primers stop going bang. Basically it wears, doesn't fully seat the primer and hey presto, multiple missfires.
That's what happened to me and i replaced the rcbs with the frankford. Fortunately the rcbs trays fit so i have one for cci br4s and one for S&B primers so it worked out well.
That's not to say the Frankford doesn't fail in the same way but it's adjustable so can be fixed rather than replaced.
The same thing happens with the old Lee, I’ve rebuilt mine a few times to allow me to feel the bottom of the pocket, they just run out of travel, with uniformed pockets I think as long as you start square, can feel the bottom of the pocket and have some feeling in your hands any tool will do the job, I find it hard to jump on the “brand wagon” as manual dexterity can accomodate some shortcomings from what I’ve seen, it also sends the wrong message to new shooters to buy this, not watch how you use the tool, sound familiar
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Re: Primer tool
good post rich.
you have described what you NEED, rather than perception of what you need.
it is easy to have your hand on it in the modern market driven shooting world.
bruce.
you have described what you NEED, rather than perception of what you need.
it is easy to have your hand on it in the modern market driven shooting world.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
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Re: Primer tool
Totally agreed that if you spend the time and can get reasonable feedback from the tool than any (most?) tools will do the job. I have achieved 12 shot SD of 2 in the Dasher with the Laymen hand priming tool and have been happy with it yet it has some terrible reviews online. I have also seen a good shooter use the 21st century for the 1st time, under seat the primer and start to spray the target with the occasional misfire. Being an analytical I like the fact that the 21st century tool allows for a degree of measurement, adjustment and repeatability but for a new loader I would definitely start with something else as it adds unessential complexity.
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Re: Primer tool
if you have or associate with
a) hipster lifestyle
b) latte
c) manbun
d) beard oil
you probably need all the latest and greatest stuff the market says you need.
the rest of us can do just as well or better by understanding the tools we have and using them correctly.
bruce.
a) hipster lifestyle
b) latte
c) manbun
d) beard oil
you probably need all the latest and greatest stuff the market says you need.
the rest of us can do just as well or better by understanding the tools we have and using them correctly.
bruce.
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Re: Primer tool
The old 1950’s Super Simplex reloading press has served me well for priming duties,it even has a depth stop if you wanted to use it,I don’t as the press has a good feel when seating primers.
The Lee Ram Prime is also good.
Reading some of the posts here I wonder about the sensitivity and mechanical skills of some of our shooters/reloaders.
The Lee Ram Prime is also good.
Reading some of the posts here I wonder about the sensitivity and mechanical skills of some of our shooters/reloaders.
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Re: Primer tool
mike,
that reminds me of an incident that should not happen and will never be repeated.
in the good old days many of us reloaded berdan primed cases, my self included.
then the habit came for boxer primers.
however the purchase of a 450 3 1/4" nitro express demanded going back to berdan, due to the only brass being available was old kynoch twin flash.
well the first attempt to seat a primer sent a huge flash toward the ceiling, and a deafening crack into the eardrums.
had forgotten to use the stop for primer seating and driven the primer onto the anvil which is part of the case.
this is nowadays the only need for a stop, when you can do a better job by feel anyway with boxer primers.
bruce.
that reminds me of an incident that should not happen and will never be repeated.
in the good old days many of us reloaded berdan primed cases, my self included.
then the habit came for boxer primers.
however the purchase of a 450 3 1/4" nitro express demanded going back to berdan, due to the only brass being available was old kynoch twin flash.
well the first attempt to seat a primer sent a huge flash toward the ceiling, and a deafening crack into the eardrums.
had forgotten to use the stop for primer seating and driven the primer onto the anvil which is part of the case.
this is nowadays the only need for a stop, when you can do a better job by feel anyway with boxer primers.
bruce.
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Re: Primer tool
I have rebuilt the lever in old Lee priming tools a few times.
What really precipitated my buying a 21stC tool was that I had a few batches of Saum brass with rediculously tight primer pockets. I managed to get the primers in but it took a ridiculous force to get them in far enough. and it was obvious that something was about to break. And my hand and thumb were nearly falling off and I was getting some sort of RSI injury. I tried a 'more modern Lee' which was a heap of junk then went to the 21stC tool.
I saw a few instances about that time of misfires caused by primers being seated too deep. But this only seemed to happen when the primers were very heavily seated with great force. My assumption was that the primer skirt was turning inwards on a radiused bottom corner of the pocket and a good quality primer pocket unifier solved that problem. This was all unexpected and I have never seen reference to it elsewhere but I am convinced it was the cause of some of my and others (in 308 cases) failures.
Of course the primer pocket unifier has to be set correctly for depth but this is not too hard to measure and check. Once all are unified one can experiment by feel for the correct depth setting.
After all of this I was regularly getting Vsd of about 3 f/s and never worse then 4 f/s
Yes - I remember the old double flash hole brass. Loaded thousands. Getting the fired primer out of military brass was a chore.
Peter Smith.
What really precipitated my buying a 21stC tool was that I had a few batches of Saum brass with rediculously tight primer pockets. I managed to get the primers in but it took a ridiculous force to get them in far enough. and it was obvious that something was about to break. And my hand and thumb were nearly falling off and I was getting some sort of RSI injury. I tried a 'more modern Lee' which was a heap of junk then went to the 21stC tool.
I saw a few instances about that time of misfires caused by primers being seated too deep. But this only seemed to happen when the primers were very heavily seated with great force. My assumption was that the primer skirt was turning inwards on a radiused bottom corner of the pocket and a good quality primer pocket unifier solved that problem. This was all unexpected and I have never seen reference to it elsewhere but I am convinced it was the cause of some of my and others (in 308 cases) failures.
Of course the primer pocket unifier has to be set correctly for depth but this is not too hard to measure and check. Once all are unified one can experiment by feel for the correct depth setting.
After all of this I was regularly getting Vsd of about 3 f/s and never worse then 4 f/s
Yes - I remember the old double flash hole brass. Loaded thousands. Getting the fired primer out of military brass was a chore.
Peter Smith.
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Re: Primer tool
pete,
you have given away your rough age group by not admitting to reloading berdan 303 or its derivatives.
only a spring chicken.
with regards seating boxer primers with a stop.
we can uniform primer pockets, which raises the question how uniform are primers.?
i am not even going to try to find out, as seating by feel deals with such problems.
bruce.
you have given away your rough age group by not admitting to reloading berdan 303 or its derivatives.
only a spring chicken.
with regards seating boxer primers with a stop.
we can uniform primer pockets, which raises the question how uniform are primers.?
i am not even going to try to find out, as seating by feel deals with such problems.
bruce.
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