Helmar Carbon Remover

[v63800]

Looking to soak a couple of barrels, is it safe to leave Helmar Carbon Remover overnight.
thanks

[John Weigel]

I've tested it, and apart from initial flush of loose material on first patches it derides, it's continued use, irrespective of overnight soak (which does nothing) in carbon removal appears to me to be no better than any other lubricant I've tried, be it dedicated carbon product, dedicated copper removal substance, or plain old dishwater detergent liquid. I don't believe the Emperor is wearing clothes, and I don't understand why this isn't public knowledge. However, If you work the barrel using Helmars, or any other liquid medium with a new bronze brush you can slowly grind away at removing the offending buildup of carbon and copper (copper removing agents do actually work when left to soak). If you bring abrasive pastes into the equation, the process of carbon removal becomes much less time consuming, especially in chamber if carbon ring is trying to get a foothold. I'm currently experimenting by mixing two types of commercially available barrel polishes (IOSSA, JB) in a diluted form mixed with various commercial barrel cleaning compounds - with similar excellent results no matter which of the cleaning compounds I use. I like Sweet's Copper removal because it helps do a hurry-up on copper while snug-fitting patches and or brushes gain dramatic effectiveness with the abrasive elements of the paste suspended in the liquid mix. Using straight up abrasive paste in traditional way appears to be the fastest way to grind away baked-on carbon, and may have advantages to my current favourite Sweets/Iosso aprox 20:1 mix. Due to the suggestion from another shooter (with far more experience than I), I recently plugged the muzzle of a barrel, filled with the Sweets/IOSSA product for a week, then inspected after removing the stuff. The barrel looks fine, but in fairness, the IOSSA fell out of solution, probably in just a few hours, and despite my occasionally rolling barrel slightly on floor to redistribute the white 'payload' sediment. So it mightn't be a clean indication of a lack of introduced corrosive action somehow generated by the experimental mix. I'm going to shoot the barrel sometime soon, and compare targets with the last targets shot with that barrel before it was semi-retired over a year ago.


John W

[v63800]

Thanks John

[MarkS]

Looking to soak a couple of barrels, is it safe to leave Helmar Carbon Remover overnight.
thanks

What did the manufacturer(Helmar) say when you asked them?

Always looking for an effective/safe domestic carbon remover in case C4 is unavailable.

[KHGS]

My go to carbon remover is Nulon Upper Engine Cleaner. I normally soak overnight, no harm detected after several years and several barrels. To be fair, I am a Molly user and have been for 30 years. I also use JB paste every couple of hundred rounds, I apply that on a Sweets Oil moistened patch wrapped around a stiff nylon brush. I also use Bore Tech Eliminator after the Nulon, this process is used after each day’s shooting.
Keith H.

[BRETT B]

I've tested it, and apart from initial flush of loose material on first patches it derides, it's continued use, irrespective of overnight soak (which does nothing) in carbon removal appears to me to be no better than any other lubricant I've tried, be it dedicated carbon product, dedicated copper removal substance, or plain old dishwater detergent liquid. I don't believe the Emperor is wearing clothes, and I don't understand why this isn't public knowledge. However, If you work the barrel using Helmars, or any other liquid medium with a new bronze brush you can slowly grind away at removing the offending buildup of carbon and copper (copper removing agents do actually work when left to soak). If you bring abrasive pastes into the equation, the process of carbon removal becomes much less time consuming, especially in chamber if carbon ring is trying to get a foothold. I'm currently experimenting by mixing two types of commercially available barrel polishes (IOSSA, JB) in a diluted form mixed with various commercial barrel cleaning compounds - with similar excellent results no matter which of the cleaning compounds I use. I like Sweet's Copper removal because it helps do a hurry-up on copper while snug-fitting patches and or brushes gain dramatic effectiveness with the abrasive elements of the paste suspended in the liquid mix. Using straight up abrasive paste in traditional way appears to be the fastest way to grind away baked-on carbon, and may have advantages to my current favourite Sweets/Iosso aprox 20:1 mix. Due to the suggestion from another shooter (with far more experience than I), I recently plugged the muzzle of a barrel, filled with the Sweets/IOSSA product for a week, then inspected after removing the stuff. The barrel looks fine, but in fairness, the IOSSA fell out of solution, probably in just a few hours, and despite my occasionally rolling barrel slightly on floor to redistribute the white 'payload' sediment. So it mightn't be a clean indication of a lack of introduced corrosive action somehow generated by the experimental mix. I'm going to shoot the barrel sometime soon, and compare targets with the last targets shot with that barrel before it was semi-retired over a year ago.


John W

Sweets contains Ammonia which is not kind to Stainless barrels and I would never leave in a barrel longer than 15 mins!!

Helmar products work as good as any , but being water based like Boretech they evaporate quickly so soaking them longer than 30 mins has no effect. re patching every 30 mins will keep the bore wet . Hard carbon can not be fully removed without an abrasive of some sort !!!

[v63800]

thanks for the advice.

[Tim L]

Dispite claims to the contrary any chemical attack on carbon is only ever going to attack the bond between the carbon deposits and the deposits and barrel.

Nitric acid is the only chemical that is commonly available that can "desolve" carbon. On it's surface it seems the ideal cleaner for stainless barrels. It desolves copper, oxidises carbon and theoretically should harden stainless. Sounds ideal,,, ,,

Don't do this at home, nitric acid in itself is dangerous, the off gassing is poisonous and spillage will fuck up anyting it spills onto, to save anyone from finding out these dangers I just tested nitric acid in a heavily coppered/carboned Sako barrel
Impressive results on removing both copper and carbon, not too keen on the pitting that also happens though.

BC2.4.JPG

PP2.4.JPG

This is about 100mm in front of the chamber. I think the pitting is faintly visible in the before shot and if the barrel had been cleaned/polished by traditionl means the carbon filling the pits would remain in place. The acid removed it leaving the pits. The rest of the barrel looks pretty bloody awesome.