Help with Loads for .223 AMAX 80gr

[macguru]

I have a Savage LRPV 223 1:7 that lets me seat these AMAX 80gr projectiles to a tad over 2.5" COAL (2.505), touching the lands.

Could someone please tell me what loads of 2206H (or 2208, please specify) they are using and their COAL ?

I have been shooting the noslers with 24.3gr of 2208 which everyone says is really mild ? I have had a few shots disappear on their way to the target resulting in scores like 6XX0X6X which is a bit distressing so i am trying a different projectile and powder combo.

thanks in advance, andrew

[Woody_rod]

Well mate, it is likely you are not pushing the bullets hard enough, maybe they are tumbling.

Your OAL is a bit short to use a decent amount of 2208. I would suggest using 2206H, dont bother with 2208.

My daughter uses a very similar chambering, with shortish throat and similar OAL. 2206H is the only option, as we just cant get enough 2208 in the case. It shoots well at all ranges to 1000 yards with 28 inch barrel. At this length our load in the 223 is compressed. I intend to extend the throat forward about 50 thou to make a bit of room for the powder.

I won't make an upper recommendation for powder charge but start at 24 grains and go from there. Be sure to use magnum primers, they work extremely well with this load. CCI 450's are what we use.

[M12LRPV]

Your missing shots are most likely missed by the marker. We used to get the odd miss with the 223 until the electronic targets came in. Having said that though I did have a problem once when an amax dropped a bit of jacket in the barrel but they all still hit the target.

Few of the factory rifles are chambered properly for the 80gr amax's so as pointed out you wont be able to get enough powder in to get good velocity if you're using 2208 so go with 2206H. Personally I don't believe that seating them that deep will help them under any circumstances.

As for a load. Work one up using some load development techniques. Even a basic ladder test is better than taking someone else's load. It tells you what pressure your rifle can handle and you get to see the performance of the different loads on the target.

I worked up loads for various projectiles in my LRPV I found that 25.0gr 2208 with a CCI-BR4 primer worked best for the Sierra's and Noslers and 24.5gr 2208 for 75gr Amax's. I could not get the 80gr Amax's to shoot well enough do determine an accurate load. I never tried 2206H but plenty of people have told me I should.

[macguru]

At first I was blaming the marker too, but now i am fairly sure that some shots are getting completely lost between the mound and the target which i find hard to explain. They are aimed at the correct target, the scope is not loose, and the shots before and after them are going in the x ring or at least the 6 ring. Either alot of shots are going down the same holes or they are tumbling bad enough to COMPLETELY miss the target frame. Needless to say its not good for the confidence when this happens.

I have not tried electronic targets yet. In the mean time i will try amax and sierra (when i can get the latter) projectiles, and switch to 2206H. Its a great pity, because my nosler load was getting 1/3 to 1/4 MOA results. I have a 1 1/4 inch group at 300 that was very pleasing (9 shots) But if some projectiles are failing then it does not mean much.

cheers andrew

[ned kelly]

G'Day all,
I feel that WHEN you are nailing 6's and x's, regardless of the distance, there is nothing wrong with your rifle & scope, wind reading, shooting or loading techniques.

The MOST likely suspects are the bullet failing before hitting the target or markers who are not on the ball. At such a moderate loading, I seriously dont think you are pushing the bullet past it's mechanical limits.............

However, I've seen too many barrels chambered in 223 shooting dots with around 25gns of 2208 (26"+ barrels) CCI450 primers, nosler,amax, sierra, berger bullets to know thats where they like to be. Can'y comment on 2206H but it should work much the same but maybe with a prefernce for non magnum primers.

Most of these loads were bullet jam plus 10 thou longer i.e. jammed into the rifling

hope this helps

Cheerio Ned

[Ned]

macguru
If you are going to use a 1-7 Barrel and it is under 30'' for get trying to get any consistency, two main reasons are the 1-7 was manly used to shoot 90.0gn projectiles and if you want to shoot 80.0grn projectiles it helps to take the lead angle in a bit like they do for A-Max projectiles. The first thing I would suggest is take the 1-7 barrel out and sell it to some one that is going to a little hunting, and buy a 1-8 twist 30 inch barrel and some3 Lapua cases and nosler projectiles, load them with 25.5gn of 2208 and you will be in the ball park. The A-Max is well known for falling apart.


Ned

[macguru]

ahh, none of that makes much sense, ned

The projectiles i have had a problem with are noslers, not amax
1:7 should be ok
26" should be ok
the grouping was tight apart from these mystery shots

[johnk]

Some combinations can be just bloodyminded.

I recall back when F class was in its infancy, there were three 6.5/284s shooting on our range, all with the same spec barrel. Two shot fine with the projectile of the day as long as they kept velocities at reasonable levels while the third was puff the magic dragon. Nothing really cured that tube, though reducing velocity below useful levels stopped lost projectiles.

[Woody_rod]

Some technical corrections here:

If the barrel is 26 inch length, the loss of MV and subsequent spin stability of the projectile means a faster twist for any given projectile weight (which in this sense really means projectile LENGTH). A longer projectile requires a higher spin rate to maintain stability.

The 26 inch barrel with 7 twist gives a similar stability outcome to an 8 twist barrel at 30 inch length due to the higher MV.

The MV x the twist rate gives the stabilty factor, they are not mutually exclusive.

Not sure where the fragile AMAX idea comes from. I would use them at any time in preference to the 80 gr SMK. Price and a better BC are just two reasons why this is my choice. I have driven them at 3200fps with no issues to date.

[macguru]

Yes Rod i think the LRPV 1:7 223 is a good rifle, the 26" barrel is not a problem, it is very accurate and the thing to do next is try some Amax and Sierra projectiles & see if the 'missing shots' syndrome goes away, pointing to some kind of jacket failure on the noslers (that no-one else seems to be getting ?) I accept that it should not be happening at 2800-2900 fps but i dont know what else to think at this stage.

So far I have not achieved the same accuracy with Amaxes as with Noslers. (1moa vs 1/3moa) I look forward to trying sierras when i get some. I have also not had any missing shots with the amaxes but i need to shoot some more of them to be certain.

[macguru]

Rod, in your daughter's rifle, do you jump the amaxes or seat them in the lands ?

I was thinking of a starting load of 23.5gr 2206H COAL 2.500 which is .005 into the lands, and going from there........ (thats still 2% compressed which is negligible)

quickload says that is a maximum, but the adi table says 24gr is max, however i know the coal dramatically affects pressure in such a small case

cheers andrew

[Woody_rod]

Rod, in your daughter's rifle, do you jump the amaxes or seat them in the lands ?

I was thinking of a starting load of 23.5gr 2206H COAL 2.500 which is .005 into the lands, and going from there........ (thats still 2% compressed which is negligible)

quickload says that is a maximum, but the adi table says 24gr is max, however i know the coal dramatically affects pressure in such a small case

cheers andrew

Mate,

I will PM you what we do exactly, as I will not post this here. ADI has to take into account the sometimes rather puny actions used. 99% of target shooters don't have this problem, and can use loads that suit THEIR action/barrel combination. Some show early signs of pressure, some don't - just the way it is.

[M12LRPV]

Rod, in your daughter's rifle, do you jump the amaxes or seat them in the lands ?

I was thinking of a starting load of 23.5gr 2206H COAL 2.500 which is .005 into the lands, and going from there........ (thats still 2% compressed which is negligible)

quickload says that is a maximum, but the adi table says 24gr is max, however i know the coal dramatically affects pressure in such a small case

cheers andrew

Mate,

I will PM you what we do exactly, as I will not post this here. ADI has to take into account the sometimes rather puny actions used. 99% of target shooters don't have this problem, and can use loads that suit THEIR action/barrel combination. Some show early signs of pressure, some don't - just the way it is.

Yes. The only thing that can tell you your maximum is your load development. ADI cannot and Quickload cannot.

[macguru]

Thanks for the information, i think I will try some groups at 23.5/24gr '06H with COAL 2.49/2.5" and see how i go, then build up if the signs are good

If the Amaxes can approach the noslers for accuracy, and prove reliable, then i will be happy. I have ordered some sierras but dont have any yet.....

I will let you know how i go, if i get a result on Wednesday at Hornsby