McMillan F-class stock issues and others compared?

[DenisA]

G'day all,

I've heard a few mumblings of McMillan F-class stocks being a little flimsy. Firstly from Dave Mc who found a bendy spot after relieving the recoil lug area and then from Tony B. I'm hoping tony could elaborate a little more on his issue?

There has been some discussion on how to fix a flimsy stock, but I'm keen to hear about the actual flex and how it compares to other quality stocks.

How flimsy are we talking?
If you grab the end of the forend and barrel in one hand (or two), can you squeeze them in together?
Do they touch?
Can the barrel be squeezed sideways in the barrel inlet?

Do other stocks such as the Shehane Tracker, Pro Cal, Mastin or the McMillan MBR have any flex with the above method?

I don't think that any fitted stock will have ZERO flex, and I'm trying to get an idea of how much is too much.

Cheers, Denis.

[DaveMc]

Yes they all flex. Mine was that flexible that a small tap would move it to touch the barrel with about 5mm clearance. Probably the worst I had seen. Not all Mcmillans are that bad and I guess it has to do with the amount of fibre though the stock and the fact I cut most of that out for the recoil lug. I purchased one of wild dogs CF stocks for my Tikka and there was very noticable (in fact huge) difference and it shot extremely well and was very comfortable. I am not sure how much flex is too much but some McMillan users simply found sliding it further forward on the bag got them excellent accuracy (even a report on 6BR about it). I tried but didn't really get a good result until I transformed the stock.

So in clonclusion a small amount of flex seems acceptable but spongy, inconsistent flex might not? (and mine was worse than the normal).

My low profile Mastin stock is also quite stiff. The long thin forend of the SSS dogtracker has a little flex (nothing like the Mcmillan) but still shoots extremely well.

[aaronraad]

I don't think that any fitted stock will have ZERO flex, and I'm trying to get an idea of how much is too much.

Cheers, Denis.

Yes how much is too much?

How much before it's classed as return to battery. A delayed roller blowback or toggle arrangement within the stock would be illegal...wouldn't it? A KNOXX AXIOM stock is illegal isn't it?

[DenisA]

Yes they all flex. Mine was that flexible that a small tap would move it to touch the barrel with about 5mm clearance. Probably the worst I had seen. Not all Mcmillans are that bad and I guess it has to do with the amount of fibre though the stock and the fact I cut most of that out for the recoil lug. I purchased one of wild dogs CF stocks for my Tikka and there was very noticable (in fact huge) difference and it shot extremely well and was very comfortable. I am not sure how much flex is too much but some McMillan users simply found sliding it further forward on the bag got them excellent accuracy (even a report on 6BR about it). I tried but didn't really get a good result until I transformed the stock.

So in clonclusion a small amount of flex seems acceptable but spongy, inconsistent flex might not? (and mine was worse than the normal).

My low profile Mastin stock is also quite stiff. The long thin forend of the SSS dogtracker has a little flex (nothing like the Mcmillan) but still shoots extremely well.

Thanks Dave.

Wow, that McMillan was bendy.

I've read some web info on people sliding the stocks further up the front rest to make a stock handle better, but it seem like its defeating the purpose of a long stock IMO.

I guess it goes without saying, that the longer the stock, the more of a springboard effect it will have on the barrel regardless of rigidity.

[Cameron Mc]

Denis, I use and really like the McMillan MBR.
Quite stiff regarding the fore end. The centre of gravity is a little higher than their F Class stock, but adding weight to the MBR in appropriate places can help counteract this.

[ecomeat]

Denis,
I am happy to share everything, but my stock had the " glue in " bedding job redone and I probably won't get to pick it up till the weekend.
When I do get it home , I still only have one arm to use, and it's the left ( wrong !) one. But from memory, I am very confident that I can easily squeeze the forend tip and barrel together with one hand.
I thought I posted this last week, but following on from input from Dave Mac and Jason Mayers, I think I will get one of Joe Wests stocks ex the UK, and have him do the barrel inlet for about a 1.3" straight cylinder barrel. Then use Jasons suggestion and carbon fibre reinforce the whole " half cylinder" of the barrel inlet area so that a typical 1.25" straight cylinder barrel is just nicely clear. That would give me a lot of support. My McMillan stock is approx 33" OAL. The Spanish carbon fibre one I posted was 35", and Mr West says he is happy to build them any length, up to 40"
Tony

[Tim N]

Hi All,
I have a McMillan MBR which will touch the barrel when squeezed with one hand which I don't think matters.
The only gripe I have is when I went to set up the scope I noticed the top of the stock wasn't level with the underside where it runs in the rest.
I'm usually not OCD about things but this bugged me for a while.

[DenisA]

G'day Tony. You did touch on it last week though not in detail. You said;
"I was very disappointed at the flex and spring in the McMillan F Class stock that I shoot my BAT in at present"

Sorry if I'm starting to sound repetetetetetetive. I'm starting to think that the amount of flex I have in the low profile stock I'm building is not excessive, though its a little more than the current stock I'm using.
I'd hate to commit to an expensive stock and find out that I've gained nothing and flex is equivalent.

Thanks for your input Cam. I've been building a stock for a while now with features that I thought should ideally counteract the effect of a hard recoiling and torqueing 300wsm. I'm starting to consider whether there's a cartridge threshold for consistency with low profile stocks.
I'm starting to think that the MBR, although not so lower profile, may be more suited to a bigger cartridge due to its stiffer/thicker forend which also allows for better weight dispersion possibilities.

Maybe low profile stocks on rifles under 10 kg are brilliant with small and medium cartridges but start to push the limits with the bigger cartridges.

All just food for thought.

[ecomeat]

Denis, I use and really like the McMillan MBR.
Quite stiff regarding the fore end. The centre of gravity is a little higher than their F Class stock, but adding weight to the MBR in appropriate places can help counteract this.

Cam,
How long is your MBR, total overall length inc recoil pad ?
Tony

[BRETT B]

I have a Mcmillan F Class stock and also have 3 others shooting them at my club with no complaints of having too much flex in the forend. If i squeeze the barrell and forend they do almost come together but it takes quite a lot of pressure to do!! The different amount of flex in other Micmillan F Class stocks may be due to how much meat was taken out to bed the action etc!! as Dave MC has already pointed out. I beieve you need some flex to absorb shock when fired but also too much will kill accuracy but too stiff will as well and you will get vertical if too stiff !! A friend of mine who is a hall of fame bechrest shooter builds his own carbon fibre Bench Rest stocks. I have shot his stocks and they are excellent and they still do have quite a bit of flex in the forend as you can squeeze the barrell and forend together with a firm grip , it feels about the same tension as my Mcmillan !!!! The design is a bit different to F class but the theory is the same and they shoot the scores to prove it.. Pound for pound i do find the Mcmillan Fclass stock quite small compared to others which may contribute to the flex people are getting if they are using long heavy barrels with beafy actions!!! I am very happy with how mine tracks and groups and wont be changing any time soon....

[bruce moulds]

don't forget that some of the flex in a barrel - forend squeeze comes from the barrel, and some could even come from the action.
glueing in the action might generally stiffen things up too. this comes back to the roofing truss thing.
some of the best fclass stocks I have seen are made by raven, who uses wood and carbon fibre laminated.
they track superbly, and hold good vert up to and including the saum.
possibly more violent cartridges are more sensitive to stock idiosyncracies.
lucky we are not shooting falling block rifles, resting the barrel in cross sticks and with the barrel time that goes with a m.v. of 1300 fps!
keep safe,
bruce.

[BATattack]

I purchased 2 pr&t low rider stocks firm the US and ended up cutting 3" off of both of them!

They flexed a bit more than I was hoping in standard configuration and I could get the stock to touch the barrel with a decent amount of one handed force.

When I first tried them (shooting a 7SAUM) I found the torque would load up the stock then spring back during recoil. I don't know if it actually affected accuracy or not.

In the end I cut 3 inches off for two reasons 1 was to reduce flex (which it did and is quite stiff considering it's so low and still longer than most) AND so I could actually reach the adjustment on my front rest!! I'm 6" 2" with long arms and I still couldn't make rest adjustment while looking through the scope!! Long forend . . . . Good in theory . . Not in practicality!

[Cameron Mc]

Denis, I use and really like the McMillan MBR.
Quite stiff regarding the fore end. The centre of gravity is a little higher than their F Class stock, but adding weight to the MBR in appropriate places can help counteract this.

Cam,
How long is your MBR, total overall length inc recoil pad ?
Tony

Tony, mine are 34.5" long.

I checked my Shehane Tracker laminated stock and it is a little stiffer than the McMillan MBR.
They both show good results at the target, that is what we are trying to achieve.

[ecomeat]

I purchased 2 pr&t low rider stocks firm the US and ended up cutting 3" off of both o
In the end I cut 3 inches off for two reasons 1 was to reduce flex (which it did and is quite stiff considering it's so low and still longer than most) AND so I could actually reach the adjustment on my front rest!! I'm 6" 2" with long arms and I still couldn't make rest adjustment while looking through the scope!! Long forend . . . . Good in theory . . Not in practicality!

Adam,
So what OAL length did you end up with ?
I am thinking 35" or so for myself...I am just under 6' and probably longer in the arms than Cameron. Although the fact that I have a gut and he is young , trim , muscled ball of energy might effect that !
I certainly want to try it a couple of inches longer than my McMillan for starters.

[bruce moulds]

tony,
you might have a gut, and say that the only good dog is a dead dog, but rumour has it that you are a bit of an old dog
keep safe,
bruce.