Powder/load for fire forming 284 Win

[ecomeat]

Up to now, I have Fireformed my 284 Win cases (6.5 x 284 necked up) with a "match" load, using 2213sc and jammed 180 gr VLDs at around 2820 fps .
Basically so-far-so-good, but I have noted the recommendation from Alan and others re using a faster powder and lighter load for fireforming, but no specifics.
Would using Rel 17 with the 180 grainers at around 2700 fps fit into what you experienced reloaders would regard as sensible for fire forming ?

I do have BM2, 2206 H, 2208 and 2209 as well, but dont think I have ever seen any loads listed with the first 3 , for the 284.
I would appreciate your comments on the most suitable powder/velocity combination. I am fire forming for my second Bartlein barrel.........."full brother" to Mr Frasers top US performer.....which is just broken in carefully and showing very little copper after 40 rounds total.
Seasons best wishes to all forum members

Tony

[AlanF]

Tony,

I now fire-form the 7 Shehane brass with 2208, 45.5gn and 168 VLDs jammed, using some unwanted Winchester magnum primers. Velocity is around 2750 fps from memory. The theory is to not put too much pressure in the case early (for longer case life), whilst having a short sharp pressure curve to form the cases more fully. Its not at all scientifically proven - just based on reading a few opinions here and there.

Alan

[ecomeat]

Thanks Alan.
I will start at 44 gr of 2208 with 168 grainers and work up slowly, using the MagnetoSpeed to settle on a load around 2700 fps. Barry Lewsis does very well shooting 180s at that speed, so it should work OK for my fireforming.

It will be interesting to try to follow the "life span" of these cases, versus the normal fire forming load cases, in this barrel, and see if there is any pattern. The challenge will be keeping them separated !
Tony

[AlanF]

... The challenge will be keeping them separated...

Tony.

I keep cases separated with colour codes in the extractor groove (using fine tip permanent markers). But, not sure how these would stand up to ultrasonic or other cleaning methods.

Alan

[Cameron Mc]

Who is pulling the trigger Tony? Remember doctor's orders

I just drop my normal load by 2gr depending on what discarded projectiles I have at hand and use a fire forming barrel with muzzle brake. I seat projectiles tight in case neck and jam. I have been trying very lightly lubricated cases. My theory is the brass will tend to flow where it should. I lubricate the cases in a mixture of shelite with a touch of sizing wax added. Has not done any harm. I have 284 Shehane like Alan.

Cam

[Cameron Mc]

Bartlein barrel.........."full brother" to Mr Frasers top US performer.....which is just broken in carefully and showing very little copper after 40 rounds total.

Tony

So what are my barrels Tony.....brothers or sisters. At any rate they are still virgins

Cheers

[ecomeat]

Bartlein barrel.........."full brother" to Mr Frasers top US performer.....which is just broken in carefully and showing very little copper after 40 rounds total.

Tony

So what are my barrels Tony.....brothers or sisters. At any rate they are still virgins

Cheers

At a mere 30 inches, yours would have to be "sisters" wouldn't they ?
Just whistle if you want me to give you your money back and take the barrels back to their family

So Cam, when are you going to weaken and chamber one ? I won't tell Julie if you don't !

Fortunately it's my right shoulder that's been repaired, but i shoot left handed.
My Club mate Di Hannel has offered to shoot "for me" if I take it along to our local Club starting mid January. She shoots a 6.5 x 47 Lapua very very well, and is competetive enough to be keen to get her own 7mm for bad weather days. So this is a bit of a Win-Win........where she gets to put 25 rounds or so through a 284 every week, and learn a bit about how the calibre shoots, while I get my fire forming done while I am on the mend. She will still shoot her own rifle as well, every week, while I will get my gunpowder hit and have a beer and a BBQ lunch so I don't go into withdrawal.

[Norm]

Another way to fire form brass is to use a compressed charge of very slow powder and the bullet seated into the lands.
The theory is that the compressed powder supports the base of the bullet and stops it being pushed back down into the case as the firing pin hits the primer. If this happens the case will stretch in front of the web section of the case.

[Brad Y]

Tony- I fireform my shehane brass with a light 54gr 2213sc and 168 sierra load. Good enough for mid 50's at club level. But if I had a standard chamber would probably look for a load in the next load down ie 2700fps with 180's or 2800's with a 168.

[ecomeat]

Brad,
Alan's concept (and others) is apparently for a short, sharp, fast "detonation" , using a faster powder than that which will be used in a "normal" load.......with the intent being to get a more thorough case expansion than is probably currently happening with slow powders ( 2213sc) in a 32" barrel.
I use 55.7 of current Lot #5195 of 2213sc as my load for both 180 gr VLDs and 180 gr Hybrids.
The powder lot before that was exactly a grain less, at 54.7 gr, for my desired 2820 fps.
Up to now, I have been using my 2820 fps load for fire forming, at both regular club days, and even shot the Goondiwindi OPM just before NSW Queens , fire forming cases that subsequently did quite well in Sydney.
I have got 6 x firings on some cases without issues so far, so it certainly has worked OK using my normal, everyday full power load.....with a slower powder like 2213sc.
But this time around I am going to try the "Fraser" suggestion and use a light ish load of a faster powder....placing more emphasis on the fire forming than on the accuracy and velocity.
If I get lucky, it will still be reasonably accurate while doing the job, and if it's not.........well it will still be more fun than just blowing them off into the dirt like some people that i know do.
Given the way that old grey haired bugger from Vic can shoot, I figured he might have some idea what he is talking about, and if I try his suggested system then it might benefit me.
I guess Tasmania in March will be the first opportunity to test whether or not it was a good idea

[AlanF]

Tony,

I got the idea of the faster powder from discussions about using "cream of wheat" instead of a projectile and propelled by a very fast powder for fire-forming. I also like Cam's idea of lubricating the case - will try that next time. As far as using light loads with new cases, that idea came from a benchrester with a lot of technical know-how. I have not done a thorough evaluation of the benefits. Life's too short to do everything (or should I say remaining life's too short for us old buggers).

If this fire-forming thing all gets too hard for you, just send that new Bartlein down to me and I'll do it all for you, then send it (or a perfectly good equivalent) back to you...

Alan

[Norm]

http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/blow_shldrs_frwd.htm

[AlanF]

http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/blow_shldrs_frwd.htm

Sounds interesting Norm. In the 284 case, 2225 would be about right. I'll give that a try next time.

[ecomeat]

http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/blow_shldrs_frwd.htm

Norm,
Where the hell did you find that ??
I altered the URL and went back to the Homepage, and it's a website that only has about 2 working links, and hasn't been touched since 2002, and doesn't even link to the page you gave us. I thought that I had found just about everything ever put on the Internet about precision shooting, but guys like you and Aaronrad keep astounding me !
Tony