MEPLAT TRIMMING

[Range Rector]

Which is the best Meplat Trimmer Kit?
The Whidden that is used in the Wilson Trimmer or the Hoover Trimmer Kit?
Or, are there other makers on the top shelf?

[DenisA]

Do you already use a Wilson trimmer?

I haven't used a Hoover, but I do use the Whidden.

If you already have the Wilson trimmer, per calibre it looks to be cheaper and works perfectly well.

The manufacturing quality of the Whidden system had issues when I bought it, but was quickly resolved.

[Range Rector]

Denis,
Does the Whidden index off the Ogive or the base of the bullet?

[johnk]

I wasn't familiar with the Hoover, so I just Googled it.

There is a significant difference between the two meplat trimmers.

The Hoover indexes off a point somewhere along the ogive of the projectile. You might expect that this system will result in all meplats being trimmed to the same diameter/degree/area once you have adjusted it.

The Whidden system indexes off the base of the projectile, so you might expect that the diameter/degree/area of the meplat will differ if there are dimensional inconsistencies in a batch of projectiles.

Which you choose will depend on what outcome you expect from meplat trimming & what other batching, if any, you take with your projectiles. After a admittedly moderate degree of experimentation, I'm comfortable to use the Whidden meplat trimmer as the single selection process for my match rifle projectiles (210 SMKs). As I trim the point, I batch the projectiles according to the degree of trim that occurs into two batches & the occasional abnormal discards. I'm comfortable that there is a strong correlation between this characteristic & other significant linear dimensions.

Subsequent to trimming, I repoint the projectiles with Whidden's repointing tool. I believe that it is a version of this latter device that Denis had issues with, not the meplat trimmer.

(Edit) I don't know if other systems have this issue, but it can be a challenge to cut the meplat cleanly without tearing if you attack the point too aggresively.

[DenisA]

My issues were with the meplat trimmer. The cap for the trimmer screw to support the bullet base was the incorrect size and the thread on the cutters adaptor for the handle was the incorrect pitch for the Wilson handle.

Stuart was instrumental in getting it sorted out for me.

You're right though John, I also had troubles with the pointing die. Theres a thread on that issue floating around.

[Range Rector]

Is it really worth the expense and effort to Trim and Point?
Has anyone noticed any difference in doing so?

[DenisA]

It feeds my OCD well and definately makes a difference, more noticable at 600+.
I did notice a consistancy difference when I started doing both.
The more you uniform, the more variables are eliminated the more consistancy you get.

All that said, I always get out shot by people who don't trim and point, people that have been shooting a lot longer than me.

In conclusion, I think you have to be a GREAT shooter, with great gear to get a real and consistant points advantage out of it.

[johnk]

The last 3 match rifle championships that I've won were with meplatted & pointed projectiles. It's bloody hard to walk away under those circs.

[AlanF]

I point some projectiles for big matches at long range. But have decided better to just cull large or small or untidy looking meplats by eye. I put a hundred bullets nose up in a grid type loading block thingy, and look at them with an illuminating magnifier. Its easy to spot the odd ones so takes a fraction of the time involved with trimming meplats.

[DaveMc]

I think meplatting and pointing is not a wasted exercise for 900-1000 yard big competitions and have done it. As with Dennis's OCD I believe it is a sum of all the little things that count at 1000 - Shorter range you can get away with a lot more.

However, just before the Nationals this year I took a new barrel out for a run at 1000 yards - projectiles straight out of the box. I knew the load was working well and wanted to check it before heading to the Queens but didn't want to use my few hundred nicely trimmed and pointed prepared projectiles (getting ready for worlds). 13 shots went in about a 2.5 inch high group at 1000. (electronic target). I thought it must have been a fluke so went out the next day with another 6. Same elevation spread. I then took this barrel to the Nationals and used it only for 1000 yards in lead up and Queens. a 60.7 and 59.7 later and it certainly felt through those shoots that it was holding middle of super V elevation (so 40 odd shots in a row). - no meplatting or pointing and bullets straight from the box but I did run my eye over the loaded rounds like Alan does and removed a few to the short range pile.

Some batches of projectiles however would require culling too many and therefore would be worth doing.

[ecomeat]

At the ACT Queens, we accidently assembled an "expert Panel" every night at the Eagle Hawk Hotel , consisting of Davies, Fairbairn, Paroz, Ferrara, Henry, Nugent, Rigby and myself. The panel met until well after closing time each night, and concluded unanimously that my first (and probably last) attempt at pointing was the single thing (other than myself !) that I could possibly blame for a rapidly deteriorating performance.
It seems that I "over did it" and allowed Mr Whiddens fine invention to have too great an effect on each point, marking the projectile far too noticeably .
Saw elevation improvements.....of at least 2moa at 600-800 mtrs....which wasn't nearly as exciting as the occasional one or two shots in each string that displayed approx 3 moa FURTHER improvement or it's opposite.......If that's what you call 4's at 12 o'clock and 6 oclock.
The visible effect on pointed 180 gr Hybrids was far greater to look at, (compared to the VLDs) but they did pretty OK and I came in second in the Lead Up using a Maddco barrel that I had considered as very much my Number 2 .284 barrel.
Then went to freshly pointed 180 VLDs in my Bartlein barrel that had allowed a turkey like me to soar with the eagles at NSW Queens, and began the ACT Queens with great confidence.
It turned out that the confidence was slightly misplaced, as I finished 21 points behind Chop Read , and in 18th place. My performance throughout the Queens itself would best be described as "erratic", due mainly to the wild vertical flyers........up and down !!
The lesson learned here is probably to "read the instructions very carefully"

[DenisA]

At the ACT Queens, we accidently assembled an "expert Panel" every night at the Eagle Hawk Hotel , consisting of Davies, Fairbairn, Paroz, Ferrara, Henry, Nugent, Rigby and myself. The panel met until well after closing time each night, and concluded unanimously that my first (and probably last) attempt at pointing was the single thing (other than myself !) that I could possibly blame for a rapidly deteriorating performance.
It seems that I "over did it" and allowed Mr Whiddens fine invention to have too great an effect on each point, marking the projectile far too noticeably .
Saw elevation improvements.....of at least 2moa at 600-800 mtrs....which wasn't nearly as exciting as the occasional one or two shots in each string that displayed approx 3 moa FURTHER improvement or it's opposite.......If that's what you call 4's at 12 o'clock and 6 oclock.
The visible effect on pointed 180 gr Hybrids was far greater to look at, (compared to the VLDs) but they did pretty OK and I came in second in the Lead Up using a Maddco barrel that I had considered as very much my Number 2 .284 barrel.
Then went to freshly pointed 180 VLDs in my Bartlein barrel that had allowed a turkey like me to soar with the eagles at NSW Queens, and began the ACT Queens with great confidence.
It turned out that the confidence was slightly misplaced, as I finished 21 points behind Chop Read , and in 18th place. My performance throughout the Queens itself would best be described as "erratic", due mainly to the wild vertical flyers........up and down !!
The lesson learned here is probably to "read the instructions very carefully"

Interesting Tony. How much were you pointing them in terms of increments on the mic?

Had you creased the jacket at the ogive?

What was the consensus of limitation from the panel?

[johnk]

Whidden warns against separating the jacket from the core by overdoing it. On that basis, I stop when I can still see a definite pinhole at the tip. With the aforementioned SMKs this seems to be within a couple of thou on the tool micrometer from batch to batch. I have, merely for interest's sake, run the occasional reject projectile in until it formed a needle point but lack any meaningful device to measure the outcome.

[ecomeat]

Denis,
Can't really give you a meaningful "Micrometer reading". When Stuart sold it to me, he set it up in HIS Forster Coax press, on VLDs.
I looked at it for a year and wasn't game to use it, in case I did get it wrong.
Then it came time to load for the ACT, and I convinced myself that it couldn't possibly be that difficult. Did a few Hybrids first.....thought SHIT that looks too much. Did a couple of VLDs and was convinced that there was no jacket crease, but in MY Forster Coax press it certainly marked the projectile visibly further down from the tip than the example that Stuart left with me.
Re-read the Whidden instruction where he says that experience has shown no adverse effect on accuracy even if it is used too severely.
Thought " bugger it....it's perfectly centered, whatever else it might be" so went ahead and pointed approx 200 VLDs and 100 Hybrids.
The result is "history". Give me a couple of hours and I will try and get some decent photos so you can see my efforts, compared to the 6mm samples that Whidden supplies, as Correct/Incorrect , along with the one Stuart left with me

[ecomeat]

From the LEFT, its Correct Whidden Sample, Incorrect Whiiden sample, Untouched Hybrid, Pointed Hybrid, Pointed VLD, Untouched VLD


i honestly thought the VLDs looked just fine. I was definitely worried about the Hybrids until i shot them.
My "Expert Panel" all agreed that i had deformed them too much, especially Rod and Mark who I discussed it with on the mound , first. Both didnt hesitate to state that they thought the VLDs looked to have been overdone.

Here is a different color "tone", but the same order


Maybe i need glasses