barrel cleaning

[smlekid]

Hi Guys a few posts of late have me wondering what is the more preferred cleaning methods
I am currently shooting my Omark with a Kreiger barrel in 6.5 super lr
I ran the barrel in using a 1 shot and clean for the first 5 shots then 2 shot for the next 10 by the time I shot 15 shots it was showing very little copper build up I used short scrub for the powder residue and sweets for the copper during the run in
I am now using Subaru upper engine cleaner for carbon removal and I've just got hold of some Butches Bore Shine to try I try not to scrub the barrel very much preferring the chemicals to do the work I have been using short scrub and leaving it in the barrel over night
I clean the rifle after every shoot so at most it has 24 rounds down the tube
I have on hand butches bore shine, short scrub and sweets I use the sweets every 60 or so rounds and it comes out clear after 10 minutes of soaking so I think the barrel is good I'd like to keep it that way for as long as I can is there anything wrong with my cleaning regime?

[Brad Y]

I wouldnt be leaving the sweets in for that long in a stainless a barrel. In fact alot of people choose not to use it at all in stainless barrels. If you do use it, make sure you patch it all out with some methylated spirits or brake cleaner or something like that. Just remember carbon first, then copper, neutralise it all with the metho or brake cleaner and then a few oily patches before storing. Even stainless can rust.

And you might want to get some JB or iosso paste for the throat for every 50-100 rounds.

[Matt P]

With todays barrels copper isn't really much of an issue, but carbon/powder fouling is. Nearly every barrel I look down has carbon fouling (normally an inch in front of throat for about 6-8 inches) and IMO the best way to keep on top of it is abrasive pastes.
Matt P

[KHGS]

I am not an industrial chemist, but I do not believe in ammoniated solvents in stainless steel barrels. I have seen too many stainless barrels that have been cleaned with ammoniated solvents with evidence of etching so I will not risk it. I agree that carbon is the biggest fouling problem & ammoniated solvents do not work well on carbon anyway. That said how do we deal with carbon? Abrasives is one way, my personal favourite is molly coated bullets & Nulon throttle body cleaner, molly prevents the carbon embedding into the bore surface. For unmollied bullets a litre of boiling water through the barrel immediately followed by Nulon will get the job done. These are my preferred methods for what they are worth
Keith H.

[RAVEN]

Keith does the boiling water soften the carbon?

[KHGS]

Keith does the boiling water soften the carbon?

Yes, and opens the pores in the steel allowing the solvent to get under the softened carbon.
Keith H.

[Brad Y]

My thoughts would be that nulon throttle body cleaner (Ive used it before) smells very similar to quicksilver powertune (which is what Im currently using) and subaru upper engine cleaner which are both the same if not very simiar to GM TEC. The way I believe these chemicals work is by heat. The subaru cleaner you take off a hose and spray it into the engine while it is idling until it stalls. Then you let it sit for a few minutes then start the engine and rev it like crazy to burn out the carbon. So if heat activates the chemicals, then boiling water is obvioulsy getting the whole barrel hot for the chemical to work with.

My own method at the moment is hoppes down the barrel as soon as its brought off the mound, and then let it sit and penetrate into the carbon while the barrel cools for a few hours. When I get it home, dry patch out the hoppes and then patch in the engine cleaner followed by stiff nylon brushing with more engine cleaner. Patch out and netralise everything with a couple of metho patches then use boretech eliminator on the copper before another metho patch and oil to store. Really want to try the KG carbon solvent but nobody seems to use any KG products here in WA so its bloody hard to find. The engine cleaner isnt very healthy stuff but it works so I want to get rid of that part of the cleaning process and replace it with something alot friendlier. Tomorrows job is to order some online somewhere over east and get it sent over!

[jasmay]

Keith does the boiling water soften the carbon?

Yes, and opens the pores in the steel allowing the solvent to get under the softened carbon.
Keith H.[/quote

Steel does not have pores.....

Ammonia is harmless to stainless until water vapor/moisture comes into the equation, and apart from abrasives is amazing for removing copper fouling.

Carbon is the number 1 issue, and Agree with Keith, Moly will reduce the issue.

Every barrel likes to be treated a different way, the trick is to be able to pick up what it needs, and treat it with the tools and chemicals you have available. There is no on miracle clean recipe.

[RAVEN]

Sweets only works with agitation with oxygen I personally don’t want to scrub the heck out my match stainless barrel but if that’s what pulls ya chain knock ya self out!
There are far better solvent that work with out all the brushing
More barrels are worn out by all that brush work

[AlanF]

With Sweets, I use a nylon brush (vigorously), and froth the Sweets up - this works best in a cold barrel. I continue to brush for about a minute until the froth breaks down, then remove it immediately with a dry patch followed by meths patches, more dry then condition the bore with a smidgeon of moly paste.

The advantages I see over some of the other good copper removers are that it gives a very good indication of whether you have all the copper out (blue on patch) and that as you remove it with a patch, its oiliness gives you a good feel for any roughness in the throat which may need some attention with an abrasive cleaner. It is also good to apply AFTER using an abrasive - a very good way of getting any residual abrasive out. The third advantage is cost - still less than $10 a bottle in most stores.

To borrow an expression from Clint Eastward, cleaning recipes are like ASSH___S, everyone has one .

Alan

[KHGS]

Keith does the boiling water soften the carbon?

Yes, and opens the pores in the steel allowing the solvent to get under the softened carbon.
Keith H.[/quote

Steel does not have pores.....

Ammonia is harmless to stainless until water vapor/moisture comes into the equation, and apart from abrasives is amazing for removing copper fouling.

Carbon is the number 1 issue, and Agree with Keith, Moly will reduce the issue.

Every barrel likes to be treated a different way, the trick is to be able to pick up what it needs, and treat it with the tools and chemicals you have available. There is no on miracle clean recipe.

If we are going to be picky shall we call it "surface expansion"!! In any case it does work. By the way if you look at the surface of a stainless barrel through a microscope the grain of the steel structure does indeed have a pore like appearance.
Keith H.

[KHGS]

With Sweets, I use a nylon brush (vigorously), and froth the Sweets up - this works best in a cold barrel. I continue to brush for about a minute until the froth breaks down, then remove it immediately with a dry patch followed by meths patches, more dry then condition the bore with a smidgeon of moly paste.

The advantages I see over some of the other good copper removers are that it gives a very good indication of whether you have all the copper out (blue on patch) and that as you remove it with a patch, its oiliness gives you a good feel for any roughness in the throat which may need some attention with an abrasive cleaner. It is also good to apply AFTER using an abrasive - a very good way of getting any residual abrasive out. The third advantage is cost - still less than $10 a bottle in most stores.

To borrow an expression from Clint Eastward, cleaning recipes are like ASSH___S, everyone has one .

Alan

Yep & a heck of a lot of them don't work, or potentially damage the barrel.
Keith H.

[DaveMc]

As well - heating and cooling the barrel causes it to expand and contract which may help loosen some material.

Carbon doesn't technically "dissolve" it is removed by surfactants and mechanical means.

I often wonder how good a large ultrasonic would be for barrel carbon - a couple of guys in Mackay are experimenting and I see a large Lyman one on Sinclair (110 v and a pain to ship I would imagine). Anyone tried this with borescope???

[aaronraad]

I often wonder how good a large ultrasonic would be for barrel carbon - a couple of guys in Mackay are experimenting and I see a large Lyman one on Sinclair (110 v and a pain to ship I would imagine). Anyone tried this with borescope???

From my experience ultrasonics can be either used for accelerating a process or etching/polishing depending on the frequency used.

Based on Matt P's description he indicates an uneven distribution of carbon fouling from the throat to the muzzle. The risk we take using mechanical or chemical methods is eroding the 416R, 4140 or 17-4ph before removing the thicker layer of carbon fouling closer to the throat.

Makes me think that carby or brake cleaner with 'loose' fitting patches might be the way to go to attack the potential carbon fouling high spots first. I don't think a 'nylon' brush will last long with carby cleaner? Followed by a more traditional bore solvent with a corrosion inhibitor and tighter patches to work the grooves...anything to stop me from hooking up the Compri Tube Cleaning kit at work and firing some pigging wads down the bore;)