2021 F Class Nationals

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AlanF
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Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#16 Postby AlanF » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:08 am

I see the main differences affecting the coaches. Having two targets going simultaneously with wind coaches working in harmony is one of the keys for success at the Worlds. So if the State Teams doesn't provide practice for this aspect, then it increases the need for the FCWC coaches to get together leading up to the event. Maybe the National Teams budget should provide airfares etc. for the coaches to do this?

Barossa_222
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Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#17 Postby Barossa_222 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:42 am

Mostly I'd like the ability to include another coach in the team. There isn't provision for that in the current rules unless the captain is a coach.

jasmay
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Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#18 Postby jasmay » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:00 am

Barossa_222 wrote:Mostly I'd like the ability to include another coach in the team. There isn't provision for that in the current rules unless the captain is a coach.


The team can be up to 8 members plus a manager (the managers only mound duty can be scoring) 1 official coach & 1 captain, 5 shooters & a reserve. There is nothing excluding one of the active members from being a back coach or assisting, most teams have their captain doing this.

Are you asking for the number of team members to be increased?

Would you want a 2nd coach up the front, i.e. 2 shooter with one and 3 shooters with the other coach?

Barossa_222
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Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#19 Postby Barossa_222 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:33 pm

I'd like the ability to have a second coach on the mound. We didn't have enough members in the team this year and filling spots was a problem, but I think the rules should allow for it. Why can't the manager or reserve move onto the firing line if they are team members?

jasmay
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Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#20 Postby jasmay » Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:07 pm

Barossa_222 wrote:I'd like the ability to have a second coach on the mound. We didn't have enough members in the team this year and filling spots was a problem, but I think the rules should allow for it. Why can't the manager or reserve move onto the firing line if they are team members?


What rule are you referring to says that any of the 8 team members (not manager) cannot be on the mound in any capacity....

Barossa_222
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Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#21 Postby Barossa_222 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:54 pm

The understanding I have is that only the 5 shooters, the coach and the captain are allowed on the mound. If we want a second wind coach/plotter that position must be held by one of the above.

AlanF
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Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#22 Postby AlanF » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:27 pm

I think more than a second coach is needed if the State Teams are going serve as a training ground for the FCWC. The number of shooters needs to be increased to justify the use of two targets, with a wind coach on each. But as has been mentioned, some (most?) States would struggle to field 8 shooter teams. So what about having teams of 4 F-Open and 4 F/TR? Two targets with concurrent shooting in pairs from the same discipline.

jasmay
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Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#23 Postby jasmay » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:53 pm

Barossa_222 wrote:The understanding I have is that only the 5 shooters, the coach and the captain are allowed on the mound. If we want a second wind coach/plotter that position must be held by one of the above.


Point to a rule that says that... that is the key here, opinion & beliefs don’t matter, what the rule book says is what matters. Have you been through it regarding this topic?

jasmay
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Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#24 Postby jasmay » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:58 pm

AlanF wrote:I think more than a second coach is needed if the State Teams are going serve as a training ground for the FCWC. The number of shooters needs to be increased to justify the use of two targets, with a wind coach on each. But as has been mentioned, some (most?) States would struggle to field 8 shooter teams. So what about having teams of 4 F-Open and 4 F/TR? Two targets with concurrent shooting in pairs from the same discipline.



I agree, a lot more would be needed, but would it be of real benefit?

Don't forget the most important element of big team shooting is solid experience coaching on your own, if you cant do that getting involved with the more complex 8man team system is only going to make it much harder.

If we take away the training ground at the single coach level I think we would be leaving a much bigger gap.

Perhaps what we should be doing is looking to make the trans tasman match an 8 man affair... But then NZ struggle to field a 4 man team....

Don't make it too hard guys, we are struggling enough as it is....

GSells
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Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#25 Postby GSells » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:31 am

Leave it alone please.

RDavies
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Location: Singleton NSW

Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#26 Postby RDavies » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:11 pm

Why not 6 (or even 5) shooters and 2 coaches, It doesn't have to be 8 shooters and will be a little easier to field a team.

bartman007
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Re: 2021 F Class Nationals

#27 Postby bartman007 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:54 pm

I think the (2 line + 1 master) coaching system is being simplified a bit too much to be considered for state competition, based on the numbers we require to do it properly. We must consider the Retro Plotter manning as well, along with adding the wired head sets. This adds more cost and equipment required for the trip interstate.

I can speak from experience with the 2017 team, that the FCWC team practise sessions was where I learnt and adopted the coaching system along with building a rapore with the shooters. Only by travelling to the various ranges for the Australian trials did I achieve this. Which I believe is achievable in a 12 to 18 month time frame. After all, you need to meet the prerequisites of a coach which is demonstrated by coaching at State Level.

I see the main differences affecting the coaches. Having two targets going simultaneously with wind coaches working in harmony is one of the keys for success at the Worlds. So if the State Teams doesn't provide practice for this aspect, then it increases the need for the FCWC coaches to get together leading up to the event. Maybe the National Teams budget should provide airfares etc. for the coaches to do this?


I agree Alan, that once a shortlisted coaching group is formed, that more time together is beneficial to the coaches. Only at large team practises do we have the numbers to man the system appropriately. And due to the large numbers of shooters attending the practise sessions, the coaches get it reinforced well!!!

As an aside, the TR fraternity manage to put up the 3 coach wired system running over two targets. Most likely as they don't have 3 Classes all vying to populate teams from a similarly sized selection pool.

I know in Victoria we JUST managed to pull together the 5 man State Team in F-Open.
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