WHERE should I go from here?:-)

[joliver]

Hi guys,

Posted on this board a while back with question re: Parallax/other issues and got some amazingly good/helpful responses...

This time around its a more general question:

"WHERE do I go from here?":-)

What am I shooting? F Class Standard...

What am I using? Remington 700p TWS rifle with 26" barrel (1 in 12 twist), harris bipod, 5.5-22x56mm Nightforce NXS scope (mildot reticle) and am shooting the club ammo which is standard 150gr Palma match (Winchester)...

Everyone else in the club has a 'race gun' or 'F Class Rifle' (i.e. single shot rifle with weird looking flat forestock, much heavier/longer match barrel (typically 30 inch), high tech micrometer adjustable front rest and so on...

On Saturday I turned up and it was a 1000 yard shoot - and here is an idea on scores:

Me: about 36 out of 60 the first time and 46 out of 60 the second time - bottom line - I got 82...

Everyone else shooting F Class (about 5 shooters) got higher scores - the usual club legends getting 118 out of 120:-(

Admittedly, I *had* come off a night shift at 0600hrs that morning, I was a bit tired, there was NO TIME for zero-ing and to be honest the 25 yard zero tunnel which is the only option on my range is ZERO USE to me because the parallax is horrendous at 25 yards with my scope anyway...

I did all the math/worked everything out in my head as best as I could (working out the 'come up' from the 300 yard shoot the week before and then winding back about 2 MOA windage and ON about 11 MOA more (windy day) - after 2 shots OFF TARGET I got the third on and then all shots were on paper at least...

Towards the middle of the second 12 shot shoot I THEN ended up with about 6 bulls (6's) in a row - so THEN I started to feel okay...

BOTTOM LINE: I need to know: DO I have to do what several people in the club are telling me (i.e. spend about 6000 bucks on ANOTHER RIFLE to have ANY CHANCE of really competing in F Class rather than just getting wiped out all the time...) or NOT?

WHAT is the consensus people? ANY/ALL feedback or thoughts here welcome:-)

Thanks in advance,

John.

[joliver]

PS I should probably mention that I've managed to get about 108 or so using this same rifle (can't remember what distance that was at though - somewhere between 400 and 700 yards I'd say though...) John.

[Tony Q]

HI John

First thing, do you need to spend $6000? … absolutely not!

The main trick is consistency and repeatability shot to shot … this holds true for your position/technique and your ammunition. Your rifle needs to be accurate but does not need to cost thousands!

The great thing about F Class is the ability to be competitive without spending huge money. This is particularly true in FS as we do not need to get into the caliber hunt or furnish a new barrel every year, any trued and accurate rifle will compete evenly regardless of a $800 or $8000 cost, the ability to read the conditions and tune up your technique and ammo are the main contributors to final scores.

John, can I ask what sort of groups your getting at say 100m or even 300m ? and, at 1000yds did you have elevation issues or was it mainly wind?

One thing you should look at is handloading, although the factory match 155gn ammo is okay it may not be the best option for your rifle. As an example, and using 1000yds as an indicator, if, for instance, your factory ammo has a velocity deviation of only 25ft/sec, over the 10 shots, that equates to almost 1 MOA vertical variance at 1000yds.

Also you may at some stage want to think of getting your Rem 700 trued up for around $300, or a better trigger unit, or an adjustable stock … and so on. But to be honest I would start with handloading if you can, then look at your position, trigger release, breathing … etc. You may also want to check your action screws and torque them up to the same poundage.

But, to finish, I can tell you the Rem 700 is a great place to start in many ways as just about everyone makes something for the Rem, triggers, stocks … you name it, someone makes it as an add on, which means, you can build the rifle that’s right for you in stages.

Edited for spelling, and to say:

We have a few shooters, in SA, who use Omark rifles in the $800 range and some who use factory Rem’s or Tika’s … these rifles are VERY capable of producing tack driver accuracy with handloads, the shooters are also VERY capable of driving them.

[bully_eye]

Must admit that my experience with F Class is only shooting open however I would say that anyone who says you NEED to spend $6k on a rifle is delusional, even in Open. You can EASILY do it though if you want and your scores may or may not improve. If you want to start spending money on your equipment then your Remington actioned rifle is an excellent base to start from. You could get your action trued and converted to single shot, buy a custom made stock and match barrel and have a good gunsmith screw it all together for you, all the fancy reloading gear your heart desires and a quality front rest- either bipod or pedestal style- and still have change enough from $6k to buy another Remington rifle to replace it. I dare say that plenty of possibles in F Standard would have been shot with pretty basic rifles.
You have a quality action and scope. Work with them if you want to make some changes and consider looking into assembling your own handloads. If money is no option then by all means spend big.
For what its worth,
Michael

[Simon C]

John, that Rem Police will be competitive.....dont go and spend money on another rifle. U have great optics (I have the same scope ) and that is real important. The Rem action is easy to do things to so when your barrel needs replacing, have it trued at the same time.

As Tony said, I would like to see what kinda groups u r getting at 300m (elevation more than lateral dispersion)

The 2 bits of advice I would like u to take on board are:

1. Handloading for that rifle will improve things.
Find another member who can go through the process with u. Keep everything consistent and your groups will improve.

2. Enjoy your shooting and shoot as often as possible.
Wind reading is what makes a good competitive shooter. The more u can get your head around the wind, the better your scores will get. If your rifle holds 0.5moa and u read the wind well - u can win.[/u]

[RAVEN]

Hi John
I you’re only shooting at the FB targets and your rifle will shoot .5moa average groups its competitive enough.
I have seen many old omark's re barrelled for FO that beat the so called 6K custom rifles having shot a standard garden variety Remington and a full race rifle my score have improved by approx 5%-8% there is only so much score you can buy shooting on the FO target is less forgiving and the slight increase in score will show.
Cheers
RB

[mitchellchandler_au]

Hi mate,

I used to use a 700 police in F-class with a Leupold mark 4 10x40 out to 900 yards and with the right hand loads it scared a few good shots with their $4000 rifles, but now I use an Omark in 223 and the 700 gets used to vaporise crows,pigs and foxes out to 300 yards and beyond when I can see them.
The 700 is a great rifle to use as a starter rifle and now you have a great platform to build up into a deadly long range f classer.

Just my thoughts though.

[AlanF]

John,

My advice would be to sell your Rem Police in its original condition, buy a 2nd hand Omark for a few $100, put your NXS on it (with 20 min base) and get an "A-shaped" bipod (and some reloading equipment). If the barrel is respectable and you can get it bedded by someone who knows Omarks, it will be capable of getting 120 in good conditions. So you'll end up with a much more accurate setup, and probably some change too.

Alan

[pjifl]

There is no reason your rifle cannot be up with the best. It will probably need more nursing and tweaking to achieve this, however.

But, the bottom line is that a solid receiver dedicated target rifle is easier to get shooting to a top level.

I would be shooting what you have, putting a large effort into learing all the tricks of loading the very best ammo possible. Then, by keeping meticulous records of all range settings gain the confidence to shoot centres first shot. Over a many range shoot, methodical organization will produce consistency and freighten those who rely on top gear only.
Wind reading is the other thing to work on - probably the most important.

At the same time, with no rush, I would look around for a cheap solid receiver easily bedded target rifle. Omarks are dirt cheap. Rebarrel and restock and build up an absolutely top rifle for well under $1000.

Then go out and prove that $6000 does not shoot any better.

Peter Smith