More on Barrel Tuners

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wsftr
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#31 Postby wsftr » Fri May 18, 2018 6:04 pm

Gyro wrote:Sungazer im pharqued if i know what page im on !!! I know damn well my gun is lacking in precision. I might have won a shoot the other day with it at Trentham but only because it blew some crazy winds and i never had a train wreck. If the winds werent so severe i'd bet Lewis R would have creamed us all.

At that shoot at the 300 yards for example shot number 9 in one detail was a lineburner at 12 oclock. Then shot number 10 drops right out the bottom for a 5 ! Im thinking WTF ?

If i thought a tuner would save me from that level of POOR SHOOTING i would get one tomorrow. But im totally positive there's other stuff going on. Keeps it interesting tho trying to sort through what it is !


Yip - a tuner ain't gonna help there. I use a tuner and that type of issue isn't even in my thinking for why I fitted one. Screwdrivers for screws and hammers for nails :wink:

Gyro
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#32 Postby Gyro » Fri May 18, 2018 6:21 pm

wsftr wrote:
Gyro wrote:Sungazer im pharqued if i know what page im on !!! I know damn well my gun is lacking in precision. I might have won a shoot the other day with it at Trentham but only because it blew some crazy winds and i never had a train wreck. If the winds werent so severe i'd bet Lewis R would have creamed us all.

At that shoot at the 300 yards for example shot number 9 in one detail was a lineburner at 12 oclock. Then shot number 10 drops right out the bottom for a 5 ! Im thinking WTF ?

If i thought a tuner would save me from that level of POOR SHOOTING i would get one tomorrow. But im totally positive there's other stuff going on. Keeps it interesting tho trying to sort through what it is !


Yip - a tuner ain't gonna help there. I use a tuner and that type of issue isn't even in my thinking for why I fitted one. Screwdrivers for screws and hammers for nails :wink:


I'd be keen on a little more of your thoughts on bullet checks and your possible batching of them please ?

wsftr
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#33 Postby wsftr » Fri May 18, 2018 7:01 pm

assuming we are talking same lot berger bullets or customs same lot (gotta set the context so the rules apply) :)

IMO bullet batching is a very fine tune step (wouldn't fit your use case assuming the above context is met)
Weighing is simply to catch an outlier..arguably risk mitigation...this could meet your use case....but unlikely if it is a more frequent occurrence.

Gyro
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#34 Postby Gyro » Fri May 18, 2018 7:04 pm

wsftr wrote:assuming we are talking same lot berger bullets or customs same lot (gotta set the context so the rules apply) :)

IMO bullet batching is a very fine tune step (wouldn't fit your use case assuming the above context is met)
Weighing is simply to catch an outlier..arguably risk mitigation...this could meet your use case....but unlikely if it is a more frequent occurrence.


I am totally confused sorry. Please explain again ?

wsftr
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#35 Postby wsftr » Fri May 18, 2018 7:19 pm

Gyro wrote:
wsftr wrote:assuming we are talking same lot berger bullets or customs same lot (gotta set the context so the rules apply) :)

IMO bullet batching is a very fine tune step (wouldn't fit your use case assuming the above context is met)
Weighing is simply to catch an outlier..arguably risk mitigation...this could meet your use case....but unlikely if it is a more frequent occurrence.


I am totally confused sorry. Please explain again ?


Assuming you are working with well formed bullets within the same lot # ... i.e a Berger or a custom

In My Opinion Bullet batching won't help with dropping out of the 6 ring at 300 (your use case). i.e. to have a greater degree of certainty of keeping all shots within the x ring vertical at 300 I would sort bullets. To keep all shots within 6 ring vertical at 300 I wouldn't bother.
A real outlier weight wise could have a different POI and drop out of the 6 ring. But if that happens more frequently and wasn't a one off it is unlikely that was the cause.

dave
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:18 pm

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#36 Postby dave » Fri May 18, 2018 7:42 pm

having never played with or used a tuner (but have seen other shooters do well with them) has anyone found that the change in length of a barrel as the temperature increases or decreases, has any effect with tuner settings?

if the maths are correct

for a 28 inch barrel with a 40 degree F change in temp ( a very conservative temp increase amount)

7.2 x .0000006 (linear thermal coefficient for steel) x barrel length x change in temp

7.2 x .0000006 x 28 x 40 = .0048384 inches say around 5 thou

the thermal coefficient of steel for Celsius is approx. 13 x .000006


cheers
dave

sungazer
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:58 pm

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#37 Postby sungazer » Fri May 18, 2018 9:03 pm

For both the temp case and the bullet deformity case, That is why I made the stipulation of not measuring on paper and just looking at the barrel movements both vertical and horizontal plane.
I am weighing my projectiles and do find some very light outliers they get used in club practice when just concentrating of wind reading.
The Temperature rise in the barrel is going to be 3D and not just in length so that is another uncertainty that would need to be taking into account in the uncertainty statements.
To do the whole study justice it would take some really expensive gear in the test and measurement area a few really good thinkers and a good documentation process person and the maths. The only people that could really fund such a study would be the government and sadly the people needed just aren't there it would need to be contracted out

williada
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Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:37 am

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#38 Postby williada » Fri May 18, 2018 11:19 pm

Dave the answer is yes and often the thread pitch we put on the variable tuner relates to .005" adjustments when you move of a node due to barrel warm up or temperature on the day. Sometimes equates to .3 grain to max .6 grain depending on the rifle when off the node.

Gyro
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#39 Postby Gyro » Sat May 19, 2018 4:27 am

I'm done here Jase and haven't answered your initial topic question ( apologies for the waffle ) but would suggest going to the source for the tuner. Surely the tuner makers have done plenty of work before putting thier tuner into the market plus they would be getting all the feedback from the shooters running thier tuner re how to set them up and tweak them.

If u make your own you would be on your own as a homemade tuner would always be subtlety different to an off-the-shelf one.

U and I and everybody knows a tuner will not be a panacea. Regards Rob

Audax
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:48 am

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#40 Postby Audax » Sat May 19, 2018 5:43 am

Don't be confused by the air in the tip of the projectile shown.....they are all hollow. This one shown however has uneven lead, more one side than the other creating an out-of-balance issue, and potentially a flyer.

The weight was not outside the range of any other in the box.....weighing will not segregate these faulty bullets from the batch....!

!Peter!
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:35 am

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#41 Postby !Peter! » Sat May 19, 2018 8:13 am

Has anyone used a tuner to get a ocw/obt and positive compensation tunes to align?

GSells
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:04 pm

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#42 Postby GSells » Sat May 19, 2018 9:52 pm

!Peter! wrote:Has anyone used a tuner to get a ocw/obt and positive compensation tunes to align?

Hi Pete , judging by the silence and none wanting to give up secrets . I would take that silence as a yes !!

!Peter!
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:35 am

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#43 Postby !Peter! » Sun May 20, 2018 12:03 am

Thanks Graham, sometimes I do get the feeling that secret squirrel stuff is going on but then again I could be paranoid :D

wsftr
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#44 Postby wsftr » Sun May 20, 2018 10:19 am

!Peter! wrote:Thanks Graham, sometimes I do get the feeling that secret squirrel stuff is going on but then again I could be paranoid :D

hee hee - yeah cos they produce magic that will win shoots - if you know the secret formula you will win every time :mrgreen:

Gyro
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: More on Barrel Tuners

#45 Postby Gyro » Sun May 20, 2018 3:33 pm

wsftr wrote:
!Peter! wrote:Thanks Graham, sometimes I do get the feeling that secret squirrel stuff is going on but then again I could be paranoid :D

hee hee - yeah cos they produce magic that will win shoots - if you know the secret formula you will win every time :mrgreen:


All power to you comrade ! If this secret database is real then soon enough the information will be out for all to benefit from. Wouldn't that be a fairly predictable scenario ?


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