schuller wrote:Looking for info on availabilty of pre-fit barrels in Australia for savage f class target action all barrel makers welcome, got all the gear just want to buy and screw on, any feedback would be much appreciated.
I've sat and read with amazement this topic. I'm new to this sport and I have read many times on this forum that this sport is finding it hard to recruit new blood, well this topic and how it has developed is a very good example of one of the reasons why!
At first I thought no keep away from this it will cause bad feeling. But after a couple of days and re-reading this topic I cant keep my mouth shut.
Schuller asked a very simple question does anyone know where he can get pre-fit barrels for a savage, simple enough question you would think, til you get, and I am going to say it, a very pompus "sounding" chap (I re-iterate "sounding"), going into extreme depth on a subject that did not require it and making schuller feel from the sounds of it highly uncomfortable.
You want to know why people are put of this sport!!!
Maybe I have read and re-read this wrongly if so I apologise. However I believe in speaking your mind so I have. I do not believe this was done intentionally (well I hope not) but how you say something in writing can come out sounding totally different as to how it was intended.
schuller wrote:Looking for info on availabilty of pre-fit barrels in Australia for savage f class target action all barrel makers welcome, got all the gear just want to buy and screw on, any feedback would be much appreciated.
I've sat and read with amazement this topic. I'm new to this sport and I have read many times on this forum that this sport is finding it hard to recruit new blood, well this topic and how it has developed is a very good example of one of the reasons why!
At first I thought no keep away from this it will cause bad feeling. But after a couple of days and re-reading this topic I cant keep my mouth shut.
Schuller asked a very simple question does anyone know where he can get pre-fit barrels for a savage, simple enough question you would think, til you get, and I am going to say it, a very pompus "sounding" chap (I re-iterate "sounding"), going into extreme depth on a subject that did not require it and making schuller feel from the sounds of it highly uncomfortable.
You want to know why people are put of this sport!!!
Maybe I have read and re-read this wrongly if so I apologise. However I believe in speaking your mind so I have. I do not believe this was done intentionally (well I hope not) but how you say something in writing can come out sounding totally different as to how it was intended.
Regards Lee
Lee,
I might well also not understand too well, and I at least have excuses, but I think I understand too clearly.
I might well also not understand too well, and I at least have excuses, but I think I understand too clearly.
If it is to ask questions, mine are:
-Is this a discussion Forum, or a FAQ Website?
-Is the heading not ''Equipment and Technical''?
If aFAQ site, no more interest for me...
R.G.C.
RGC
1. I would hope it was a bit of both.
Discussing all manner of topics AND helping fellow forum member's questions when they arise. Without making anyone feel as though their participation was petty.
2. What does it matter where a question is put?
Isn't the point to try and answer a valid question and therefor assist a fellow forum member?
At worst if you see a non discussion topic or FAQ just ignore it. Let others who wish to help do so.
3. As for the last item you wrote thats for you to decide hopefully you will stay and we can discuss further issues in the future and maybe if I have a FAQ you might be able to come to my aid.
But I would like to add I have asked questions on this forum and thankfully received advice which will aid me enjoy this sport.
Surely people like myself asking questions and receiving advice from more experienced enthusiasts can only encourage more people to participate on this site and in this sport.
Whether it is appropriate to ask questions on this forum well maybe we'll have to agree to disagree.
Robert this is certainly a discussion forum. Lee, people are welcome to ask questions.
This thread seems to me to be a good illustration of how things can go wrong on a forum, and to me it is mostly just poor communication. Someone says something, perhaps slightly unclear, or perhaps in a manner which may appear arrogant to some others. Then we get a critical response and so on.
When posting, its a good idea to look at what you are writing, and try to think of how it might cause offence to others. And if you think you're on the receiving end of something you find offensive, before you counter-attack, be sure its not just a poorly expressed statement, or just someone who feels the need to maintain a tough image when they're online .
I meet up with many of the posters on these forums at Queens and other shoots. And almost without exception, they're friendly and polite. There is something about being online and a great distance away from who you're talking to that makes people less agreeable.
So lets get back to the subject of this thread i.e. Savage barrels.
I actually heard one gunsmith say the best thing to do when re-barreling a Savage is to throw the nut away !
Schuller may have posed what appeared to be a very simple question but the answer was not so simple.He got an accurate assessment from a very competant gunsmith which he decided to answer with a post starting with a story about a "cockroach farting on the cat next door" and "go and no go gauges".
KHGS was supported by Matt P and Alan F and KHGS also explained his initial post.
Sixmill understands.
Pogobill missed the fundamental points.
RGC gives an indepth description on the difference between "mass produced" and "custom" and gets called "pompous"
My suggestion is to respect the people who go out of there way to give valuable advise or you will lose their input and, before you make judgements on their advise, it would pay you to check the credentials of
those people,you might get a surprise at just how much expertise they have.
If this topic is read properly then those who have issues with it lack the knowledge to comprehend the facts presented.
It is very obvious that a rifle that sells for half the price of the top quality setup has to be of lesser quality.It does not mean that it is not safe,etc. just not as good.Savage make an excellent product,always have,but built to a price.They have had issues earlier in production with barrels but that has been resolved to the best of my knowledge[it was a quality control accuracy problem,not a safety issue.]
I sincerly hope KHGS and RGC continue to contribute there valued and much appreciated input.
Regards, Ray.
Razer wrote:Schuller may have posed what appeared to be a very simple question but the answer was not so simple.He got an accurate assessment from a very competant gunsmith which he decided to answer with a post starting with a story about a "cockroach farting on the cat next door" and "go and no go gauges". KHGS was supported by Matt P and Alan F and KHGS also explained his initial post. Sixmill understands. Pogobill missed the fundamental points. RGC gives an indepth description on the difference between "mass produced" and "custom" and gets called "pompous" My suggestion is to respect the people who go out of there way to give valuable advise or you will lose their input and, before you make judgements on their advise, it would pay you to check the credentials of those people,you might get a surprise at just how much expertise they have. If this topic is read properly then those who have issues with it lack the knowledge to comprehend the facts presented. It is very obvious that a rifle that sells for half the price of the top quality setup has to be of lesser quality.It does not mean that it is not safe,etc. just not as good.Savage make an excellent product,always have,but built to a price.They have had issues earlier in production with barrels but that has been resolved to the best of my knowledge[it was a quality control accuracy problem,not a safety issue.] I sincerly hope KHGS and RGC continue to contribute there valued and much appreciated input. Regards, Ray.
Razer
This is my last post on this topic I find I need to answer yours razer. I went to great pains to ensure I did not make any personal attacks on anyone or their expertise I most certainly (if you read the said post) did not call RC "pompus" infact I said his answer which I re-iterated "sounded" pompus which made schuller by the looks of his second post very uncomfortable.
My lack of knowledge as you put it so well didnt stop me from knowing when an answer didnt fit the question.
And to be quite frank RC aquitted himself very well when he replied to my post except for his last statement ie his leaving if a FAQ forum where I agree it would be a waste and totally wrong if he left.
At no time was anyones expertise brought into question, but the manner and timing by which it was delivered.
Even a newbie lacking knowledge can have a valid opinion from time to time. Which I thought was the point of this forum a place to express your opinion be it right or wrong.
KHGS wrote:GUYS!!!!!!! READ MY POST!!!! No where did I even suggest that Savage actions were NOT good!!!!! The whole point of my post was to TRY to explain why pre-fit barrels MAY not be such a great idea where precision, that is ACCURACY, was the reason for rebarreling your Savage. No where did I suggest that Savage actions were unsafe due to poor tolerances. You made a statement to which I replied with info to explain the existing situation as I saw it. It seems you have no grasp at all of what I was on about. Keith H.
G'Day Keith,
I agree 100% on this Keith we don't agree on some things but you are right on this issue my gunsmith has fitted 7 barrels to the one action and will not do the job unless he has the action.
Hi guys back from my sojourn and fact finding mission.
I was hoping to see with glee all the replies in response to my quest for the products in my original post, but all I see is the words astonishment, amazement all “A” words I thought these words would be better served in context with trying to apply them to the best place, the cheapest place and plenty of, but no it has descended into another “A” word called Argument, now Alan F is correct this is the classic case, yes it is, but I think it is also verging on becoming endemic in certain quarters, but I fear this is only my own doing for I was well warned on more that one occasion by the backbenchers sitting quietly with their Nicky Lauda name plates cautioning me that a reply that is truthful and concise will surely bring forth the jelly backpackers not to mention one that injects a touch of humor consisting of wolfgulls and cat hating roaches, not long back we all read the stumpybarrelgate debacle and more recently the mothercountrynamegate affair, the forum is starting to see the same disease that will be inflicted on our little hairy faced jet ski friend, but then again only administrators will decide if patches are the answer because if not there better be an enormous area in the burns ward to contain us all.
My factual mission was to ascertain from not only the percentage shooters brigade, but also the custom/semi switch barrel deviants, had my forty years of noise making just been lucky and had my/our inert reasoning and behavior in not recognizing my/our inexperience as to the “correct function and safety” method being purported during our evil deeds with the tubes just been a doomed road to inaccuracy, I was met by a hilarity that had to be seen to be believed, but through all this laughter one of the creatures said something in the now ominous darkness that started the cracks in my innocence, he repeated the old adage in a barely audible screech yes that adage, the one which is only whispered in the lairs where the evil switchers congregate “The gunsmiths are no friends of the barrel switchers”, as I looked into his bloodshot mind changing eyes I new no answer would be forthcoming for it was not needed, then he disapeared into the darkness with an eerie wind, I turned away in revulsion the contemplation intense, was it true as the winged gargoyle had said, had I moved to the darkside with dare I say it, that one purchase, oh the savageness of it all, the innocence drained from me in an instant the reality was suddenly with me, the thin veil of the agenda had revealed its being, my reasoning was complete and I new from that day forth that my integrity was as one and intact, with my wallet transcended to a place of safety where no agenda however scary and camouflaged could tear it from its place of redemption.
I can certainly say this, I have learned my lesson and well at that and I can assure you of this, I will return to from where I came never to return, to that great asbestos cave in cyberspace where everyone answers to the name of Austrian Nic taking only my microscope to check the seagulls (just to make sure) and my trusty g.m. gas counter for our little multi legged friends and contemplating our future as a harmonious sport.
And as the simple honest poster returned to his men on his magnificent but blackened steed his body reeking of that telling smell his cry went out “They may burn the skin from my body but they will never, never take my spine”.
Last edited by schuller on Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It is really quite amazing to me how some people can ask or pose a question and when an answer is given, because it is not the answer they wanted, they then "shoot" the messenger. I see these people in action often, they keep asking the same question over & over to different people until they get the answer they want to hear. It does not matter if the answer is the right one.
I actually do prefit barrels for a number of my customers, under very strict guidelines & only for certain people & certain actions, this is my policy & it has served I & my customers well over many (30) years.
Back to my original post:
1) Savage actions are good actions, they are mass produced & as such have a wider thread tenon tolerance.
2) Such actions do not lend themselves to accurate prefit barrels.
3) I do not subscribe to the Savage barrel nut system or their recoil plate on accuracy grounds. Remember this is what I do, accuracy riflesmithing & it is in this context that I responded to this thread.
It seems that I have been misunderstood by the obviously inexperienced people I was trying to help. I do not post often in forums for this very reason. I think I will go back to just observing, it is less frustrating.
Keith H.
I think most forum readers, and I say readers because the number of readers far outnumbers posters, fully appreciate the contributions of industry leaders such as yourself and Monsieur Chombart. In the interests of the betterment of F-Class shooting, I urge you to continue to share your substantial knowledge gained over many years. If you find some of the responses frustrating, be assured that you are not alone, but in the end, the truth usually muddles its way through.
Whatever you do, don't take out your frustrations on us poor shooters at Canberra next week .
I do not subscribe to the Savage barrel nut system or their recoil plate on accuracy grounds
Ok then, if we do away with the nut & shoulder up on the action, what about the recoil lug? the target action one is better made then the standard type, what do we do ?
KHGS wrote:It is really quite amazing to me how some people can ask or pose a question and when an answer is given, because it is not the answer they wanted, they then "shoot" the messenger. I see these people in action often, they keep asking the same question over & over to different people until they get the answer they want to hear. It does not matter if the answer is the right one. I actually do prefit barrels for a number of my customers, under very strict guidelines & only for certain people & certain actions, this is my policy & it has served I & my customers well over many (30) years. Back to my original post: 1) Savage actions are good actions, they are mass produced & as such have a wider thread tenon tolerance. 2) Such actions do not lend themselves to accurate prefit barrels. 3) I do not subscribe to the Savage barrel nut system or their recoil plate on accuracy grounds. Remember this is what I do, accuracy riflesmithing & it is in this context that I responded to this thread. It seems that I have been misunderstood by the obviously inexperienced people I was trying to help. I do not post often in forums for this very reason. I think I will go back to just observing, it is less frustrating. Keith H.
Keith
100% + with you on technicals and personal points.
Facing (seemingly) insults and low level irony, I will remain an observer as well, although my first reaction was to ask the administrators to be writen off the members list and get away from where it seem I have nothing to bring in...
Hope they will have the decency to even not apologise... Apologies can be even worse than insults and irony...
Ptobably my last post for long....if ever....
Thanks to those who manifested support here and in personal messages...
Yours sincerely
Robert Chombart
Not a pseudobnym,BTW....
Robert Chombart
Not a pseudonym behind it to hide...
when they're online 
!
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