the new marking system has

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:34 pm

got whiskers on it.
4 paddle positions across the bottom is asking for confusion.
differentiation between super v & v is not simple.
this should have been presented as a trial, not a new system.
it is a camel created when a committee designed a horse.
so as not to appear a whinger, i offer an alternative suggestion.
super v at 3 o'clock, v =6 at 6 o'clock, 5 at 4.30 o'clock, 4 at 7.30 o'clock.
3 at 1.30 o'clock, 2 at 10.30 o'clock, 1 at 9 o'clock.
this would be much less prone to mistakes.
bruce moulds.

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:35 pm

It's not the protocol, it's the tools you use. If you threw away the prehistoric paddles & used neat semaphores like Queensland & some other locations do, you'd have the targets marked with much less fuss & & substantially more clearly. You're markers wouldn't be worked as hard either.

Post by **AlanF** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:36 pm

Bruce,

They've been using the ICFRA indication system at Belmont for a while now. I don't remember any complaints at the QRA Queens and there were many of us who'd never seen it before. The change of colour for the X must be a bit awkward for markers though. It definitely needs attached value indicator rather than wand for this system - wand positioning is not accurate enough for the 4 across the bottom, particularly at 300. We've decided to delay the change until after our OPM, so that our own members can get throughly familiar before we host visitors who are unfamiliar.

Alan

VickiMcc · Post by **VickiMcc** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:25 pm

What new target marking system. The SSR' still refer to the current system. It is my understanding that Australia only adopted the ICFRA Targets, not the complete set of rules..

actionclear · Post by **actionclear** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:50 pm

We have used this system at our club since ICFRA targets were introduced.

We do not use paddles, our scoring indicators are velcroed onto the target. It is simply a case of rip and stick.

Fast effective, and great for F Class, because there is no paddle waving all over the target. Once you score has been called, you are free to shoot again.

actionclear · Post by **actionclear** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:50 pm

New rules are available on the NRAA website.

Post by **AlanF** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:01 pm

My information is that at a NRAA Board meeting in February, it was decided to adopt the ICFRA scoring system i.e. 1 (at 8 o’clock on Target),2,3,4,5, (along the bottom), V(or 6) and X at 4 o’clock, using a red indicator for the X.

M12LRPV · Post by **M12LRPV** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:12 am

As per the others you need to ditch the paddle. Or go electronic?

The hardest part though is the colour change for the super V. It makes naked eye scoring almost impossible. I had one team shoot where the shooters (on both teams) were calling the scores to the scorers because we could see the colours and they couldn't.

Then we switched to electronics.

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:59 am

M12LRPV wrote:The hardest part though is the colour change for the super V. It makes naked eye scoring almost impossible.

....... and that has to be the best reason for ditching the paddle sysyem - so scorers have to do their job as per the SSRs & verify that each value is correct.

M12LRPV · Post by **M12LRPV** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:31 am

johnk wrote:
M12LRPV wrote:The hardest part though is the colour change for the super V. It makes naked eye scoring almost impossible.

....... and that has to be the best reason for ditching the paddle sysyem - so scorers have to do their job as per the SSRs & verify that each value is correct.

Yes because we must ensure that not one single person turns up without having every single piece of equipment that the elite deem is necessary in order to shoot. If they don't have spotting scopes in order to see the colour of the scoring disk we should send them home and ban them from the range permanently.

The way people rave about the SSR's i'm surprised that there are aren't rules in there for taking a crap and how you wipe afterwards.

Personally I would rather see people turn up and be shooting with what they have (and don't have) and enjoying themselves enough to join up and start shooting weekly.

VickiMcc · Post by **VickiMcc** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:12 am

i cannot see anything in rules pertaining to this. Only new rules pertain to target change and grading for FClass

Post by **AlanF** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:13 am

At club shoots, its really up to the shooter whether they want quality scoring or not. Shooters can see the spotter and the score indicator. They can request that the scorer calls each shot. If the scorer gets things wrong because of not having binoculars or spotting scope, then the shooter is entitled to complain. Most clubs have enough spotting scopes among their members for this purpose and they're shared. Our club owns 3 sets of 10X binoculars which are available for this.

The non-safety related rules of the SSRs are often relaxed at club and lesser shoots, but you'll still get some competitive shooters who won't put up with sloppy procedures, and that's their right.

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:22 am

the 2 most serious potentials for problems with this system are as follows.
1, there are not seperate marking positions for the x and the v/6.
i as a shooter can see how easy to make a mistake here, due to multi requirements regarding colours of spotting discs and marking discs, both as a scorer and a marker.
this seems to come from an attitude of letting fclass shooters fit in with what with what suits fullbore, as opposed to compromising for what suits both.
2, there are too many marks across the bottom for quick, clear, concise scoring.
these things probably come about because the nra has adopted a marking system designed purely for t.r. and does not take into account the super v, and tried to adapt it to fclass, as opposed to making a system which suits allcomers.
i am all for being international whenever possible, but this seems to be a case of australia being ahead of the rest, and failing to deal with it accordingly.
action clear and john k are correct in mentioning that such things as velcro marking discs are superior to a paddle. the disk is still there after a scorer's view is blocked initially, as opposed to missing a quick paddle. the position of such discs is also more consistent.
i suspect that the reason for having all the marking discs on the bottom 1/2 of the target is to make it easier for the markers to reach, which is a valid one.
bruce moulds.

actionclear · Post by **actionclear** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:11 pm

1, there are not seperate marking positions for the x and the v/6

Bruce, an X is marked with a white spotter and a red indicator. For us, our indicators are black on one side, red on the other. It is simply a case of flipping the indicator disk.

6 is marked as a red spotter and black scoring indicator.

As for the 4 indicator positions across the bottom, they are very easy to get used to.

Last year our club ran a our PM with this scoring system, and many shooters were very hesitant with our scoring system before they started. It didn't take them long to catch on, and realise this system works well. I know a couple of other clubs went back and took up the same system.

Our scoring indicator remains attached to the target the whole shoot, moving with the score. No more missed paddles.

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johnk · Post by **johnk** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:00 pm

VickiMcc wrote:i cannot see anything in rules pertaining to this. Only new rules pertain to target change and grading for FClass

20.2.1.29 Where these rules for both F Open and F Standard do not specifically cover a particular subject that may arise then the rules as pertaining to TR shall apply.

4.1.3.6 The scorers shall watch the target as soon as a shot is fired and confirm with the aid of a telescope or binoculars, that the position of the spotting disc is consistent with the position of the wand or value disc placed
on the target or dummy showing the value of the shot.