AlanF wrote:Ideally you'd have separate Std and Open Teams, but there's nothing technically difficult or inequitable about a mixed team, so long as there's a maximum number of F-Open shooters in it e.g Team size 8 shooters, maximum F-Open 3 shooters. Alan
Alan,
I gather from your analysis of the stats, that your comment above means that 3 open shooters = 5 f standard shooters
I personally see no reason to have a composite team of FS and FO. There are enough of both for separate teams -- as it should be.
Maybe, if the facility allows, there could also be a composite team of 5, say 2 FO and 3 FS. However, as F Class team shooting has yet to be properly established, and it's painfully evident that NQ is not popular, lets stop messing around with it and tell the NRAA clearly what we consider to be in the best interests of F Class.
The NRAA are not going to heed the views of this site, so it needs to be done thru each State Assoc.
I would like to think that it's not too late for Canberra this year, but I think time has run out.
From the F-Open point of view I would like to see South Australia get a turn. They have put more effort into the cause than any other State over the last few years and should be rewarded. From memory, in Canberra last year there was no North Queensland and no ACT team.
Alan,
I think that's fair comment and I have no problem with SA running the F Class teams.
Only comment I would make is that the teams need to be at a venue which assures maximum participation.
I guess it's as far from NQ to Canberra as it is from Canberra to NQ.
Big problem is getting people to travel.
Beauty of Canberra is it's a days drive from almost anywhere except WA and NQ. Maybe the comps could alternate between Canberra, SA and Brisbane and maybe every 2 years would help, and maybe FO one year and FS the next.
Many possibilities.
My personal view is and I would need to check with the FCASA members if they would support this is.
Canberra would be the best alternative for everybody
At present the completion calendar is organise as below
NQRA 2012
TRA 2014
QRA 2015
SARA 2016
NTRA 2018
WARA 2019
Interestingly NSWRA isn’t mentioned at all
A min of 24 month should separate the events also gives other state time to organise teams and raise funds to support them.
So far the VRA have organised the best event ACT seem to have some luggage in regard to the NRAA and would need assurances that this would not reflect on the event.
The other down side was that ACT team fees were approx 40% greater than VRA.
ACT didn’t make it an event just provided a venue! I apologise if I’m a little critical but I’m only comparing it to VRA event in 2009
RB
both nt & nq, both from the deep north, seem to have a lack of understanding of the needs of visitors to have emails answered in order to make plans.
this, plus the distance precludes them from my list.
tas requires an expensive boat ride if you take your own car.
none of the above 3 areas have the biggest population of fclass shooters.
insofar as sa is concerned, if we did it we would need a bit of time to organize the job in such a way as to do it justice, particularly if we ourselves wanted to shoot.
bruce.
WA would complain if the teams were mixed, simply because we don't have the Open shooters over here. I don't even think WARA is running Open at this years Queens.
For those in WA, it doesn't matter whre it is held, we still have to travel.
I can remember years ago when the National Queens was shot in Canberra, a great event and venue (if you didn't mind camping on the range) and accessible to all sorts of people, from Vic. and SA, certainly NSW and Qldrs, that would travel. I had shot there a number of times, had a great time, don't talk about the flags, but anyway. Then somebody in their infinite wisdom decided to move the event up to Belmont, I have not been there since. In 1984 I went to Belmont to shoot the Queens, for something different, because then the Nationals were in Canberra. Not anymore.
People then were prepared to travel to Canberra, those from Vic, SA etc, how many of those are prepared to travel to Belmont, I don't know, but I would imagine the numbers would have dropped off, due to the move
Keeping a more central location would be the best idea. Ideally it should be shared between states but remember that F class has not yet hit the big time and getting people to travel will be difficult. The eastern states hold the majority of shooters at this stage, keeping the event located in this area is your best chance of a well attended event. W.A, North QLD and the N.T will always have a ways to travel and I think they accept that. Give the teams match time to establish itself and then look at moving it around the country.
In my opinion and for what it's worth, Canberra, being most central and capable to hold the match is your best chance of holding a well attended event.
Canberra in the great scheme of things is central to most of the eastern states and easily accessible.
Given that it was used to host the Nationals for Fullbore in the past, it has already proved its value in this capacity.
It might not have the facilities that Belmont has, but some of these came about from the Commonwealth Games in 1982 and later.
Having travelled in the past to Canberra for the Nationals, a lot of shooters had driven up from Vic, as well as SA, and come down from NSW, and elsewhere. Given the proximity of the airport as compared to Brisbane, this is easily accessible as well, even more so than any time in the past and would make this event even more attractive. Maybe the provision of a shuttle bus to the range would do even more. If there is a concern with regard to accommodation, Northbourne Avenue has a wealth of hotels not far from the range, but remember the numbers as previously mentioned with regard to the Nationals in the past, would be less.
The numbers that would attend the Nationals in the past would be that of a typical Queens, with individual entries and also teams events, but I would imagine that for FClass the numbers would certainly be less, but that is a given.
FClass is a relatively new discipline in the shooting sports and it is growing in numbers all the time. One thing that I have noticed over the years, is the growing number of people getting into Fclass on the range, as compared to Fullbore shooters.
That is not to say that people are not taking up Fullbore shooting, but I get the impression that there are more newcomers to FClass than to Fullbore. Maybe it is the nature of the equipment that is being used as compared to learning to shoot with a peep sight and coming to grips with reading the wind, taking practice and years of shooting to achieve a level of competence, as compared to the supposed instant result nature of FClass.
That is not to say that FClass is easier, as it is not, I myself am learning this, having been a fullbore shooter for thirty years and now I am on another learning curve, with some skills already attained and others yet to be mastered, but I enjoy it all the same. I had a choice, either give shooting away due to my eyesight, or try something different. FClass for me was the answer.
If the event was only a teams event, this to me restricts its capacity in furthering the sport. The beauty of the Nationals, let alone any Queens event, was/is that it was/is open to both individual entries and also teams events, and by pursuing this model made it attractive to all shooters that were prepared to travel . May be by pursuing this model for FClass there is a opportunity for the same level of interest amongst all FClass shooters.
It might be my imagination, but from time to time I get the impression that FClass is the poor cousin to Fullbore, and that it is a program filler for Queens events, along with Service Rifle and Field Class.
It certainly lives in the shadow of Fullbore , especially with regard to the SSRs, that in itself a problem, given the nature of the equipment being used and the discrepancies and interpretations of the SSRs.
We need to show the NRAA that FClass is more than that, it is a relative new discipline, it is growing in numbers all the time, has similar and also different skill sets and needs to be taken seriously.
Shooting has changed over the years, the equipment available, electronic targets and new types of ranges as demonstrated by the Commonwealth Games ranges in India and elsewhere, and the growth of FClass as compared to Fullbore. FClass is part of the future of shooting as a sport
From the state teams side of things, if the states really want this to go ahead, they themselves have to encourage their members to pursue this, by state events, prize meetings, etc .
This is where Fullbore started all those years ago, hard work and dedication and overcoming obstacles in the past have made Fullbore what it is today, and in Sydney’s case, 135 years of the Queens being shot in NSW and a premier event, like no other, except maybe for other states, or for that matter, Bisley.
A state teams venue is not just going to happen, people have to want it, and they have to be prepared to travel and this also requires some effort to convince the powers that be, that Canberra is the place for this, given its location relative to other parts of the country and a willingness on the states’ to provide teams and shooters that will travel to this event.
I know myself, if there was a FClass event in Canberra like this, I would go, especially if it was open not only to teams but also individual shooters. That is why in the past I used to travel to Canberra for the National Queens, because it was an event of this nature, and from time to time also be a part of a team. I think the title “Canberra FClass Nationals” has a nice sound to it.
I've kept to myself while all this has evolved, but it seems to me that what is being said is that unlike open teams matches, but more relevantly, the more modestly crewed senior, under 25 & ladies teams events, southern Australian F class shooters aren't going to support a teams match unless it's delivered to them a day's drive or less from home. & to hell with WA, Tasmania, North Queensland & Queensland. I recall the same argument was being given to explain/justify/excuse the minimal attendance of FO shooters at their states' regional matches not too long ago.
All the supporting arguments fall into the definition of embellishments from this shooter's viewpoint.
What does the distance from an airport matter when it comes to needing more than the requisite maximum weight of ammunition or or for the many who load each evening?
What is the relevance of when a facility was built (incidentally, the QRA's Duncan range, all the administration & the accommodation were built or upgraded post Port Arthur)?
Those teams who attended both Bendigo & Canberra would be aware that they are contested in conjunction with that State's Queens, not stand alone.
If, as the argument has lead since its inception, you southern shooters demand that the event is on your doorstep, then you must expect that the disenfranchised states will inevitably wish to review their future participation.
I disagree. It is obviously & demonstrably different.
The F Class matches in question are teams events & have been established in a similar manner to the preexisting teams matches, ie it cycles from state to state for the benefit of each state in turn.
The national Queens is an individual match similar to each state's Queens which are located at the states' venues of choice. The national Queens is located at the NRAA's venue of choice - in this case, one with access to the maximum distance for competition under national & international rules.
The ACT Queens was contested after the National F Class teams match in 2010.
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