why are the brits

RobH · Post by **RobH** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:26 pm

They can be beaten. The Australian Match Rifle team won the Woomara Match at Belmont in April 2010. Shooting over the course of fire of 15 shots at 1000 / 1100 / 1200 yds - team of 8 shooters coached.
RobH

John E · Post by **John E** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:11 pm

bruce moulds wrote:linda,
i think youv'e nailed it.
australians are inclined to aspire to mediocrity.
bruce.

Bruce, you're obviously passing comment on FO going from the Championship target to the easier ICFRA target. On the other hand, FSTD has gone from the old standard target up to the tighter ICFRA target. Don't lump all Australians into the same basket.

John

Lynn Otto · Post by **Lynn Otto** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:27 pm

John E wrote:
bruce moulds wrote:linda,
i think youv'e nailed it.
australians are inclined to aspire to mediocrity.
bruce.

Bruce, you're obviously passing comment on FO going from the Championship target to the easier ICFRA target. On the other hand, FSTD has gone from the old standard target up to the tighter ICFRA target. Don't lump all Australians into the same basket.

John

And some of us aspire to greater challenges and are forced down to the level of mediocrity...apparently for our own good, or was it for someone else's good.

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:42 pm

john,
since i was referring to people not wanting to bear the pain of bisley style shooting for its obvious gain, i fail to see why you introduce targets into this discussion.
perhaps it is your uncanny ability to draw red herrings into discussions.
bruce.

John E · Post by **John E** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:19 pm

"Australians are inclined to aspire to mediocrity" ---- your words, Bruce.
I find them offensive. No red herrings involved.
I would be quite happy to shoot Bisley style, but the fact is that we don't practice that in this country -- that doesn't make us mediocre, it is simply our style of doing things. I would enjoy my shooting, no matter what the rules are. Just don't say that I aspire to mediocrity.

John

John E · Post by **John E** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:37 pm

Lynn Otto wrote:
John E wrote:
bruce moulds wrote:linda,
i think youv'e nailed it.
australians are inclined to aspire to mediocrity.
bruce.

Bruce, you're obviously passing comment on FO going from the Championship target to the easier ICFRA target. On the other hand, FSTD has gone from the old standard target up to the tighter ICFRA target. Don't lump all Australians into the same basket.

John

And some of us aspire to greater challenges and are forced down to the level of mediocrity...apparently for our own good, or was it for someone else's good.

Or for the greater good, Lynn??

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:06 pm

john,
yet again you just fail to get it.
bruce.

Lynn Otto · Post by **Lynn Otto** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:48 pm

bruce moulds wrote:john,
yet again you just fail to get it.
bruce.

Wait...what? You just confused me Bruce, the point of your post was that the Brits read the wind better and get better results due to the fact that they shoot Bisley style and you ask the question "should we consider bisley style more seriously." John says "I would be quite happy to shoot Bisley style"...so just what is it he is not getting? :?:

John E · Post by **John E** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:02 pm

I don't know -- I just don't get it.

John
Non carborundum illigitimus

RAVEN · Post by **RAVEN** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:11 pm

Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure

John E · Post by **John E** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:31 pm

oh yeah

Southcape · Post by **Southcape** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:47 pm

RAVEN wrote:
Te audire non possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:45 am

john,
the later the evening gets, the more you play these games and the less good you seem to get at doing it.
bruce.

DaveMc · Post by **DaveMc** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:45 am

Lets get on to some positives.

1) The Australian Vet team WON!!!!!!

The way I look at it:
The team shooters job is to focus solely on the target, concentrate on their technique and listen to their coaches wind calls. THEY ALSO NEED TO ENSURE THEIR RIFLES ARE SHOOTING WELL BEFOREHAND. Team shooters need to put all their effort into putting the bullet where the coach wants it - don't even look at flags or mirage. Not an easy job all the time but no wind reading skills required. For the upcoming world F class teams we need shooter/rifle combos that can hold perfect elevation. Emil Praslick explained that the US team is finally selected purely on 1000yd elevation. For final selections they lined everyone up with coaches and scored elevation of shooters only. I imagine there may be more to it. experience, reputation etc but essentially I think they are right. We may have shooters out there with outstanding rifles and shooting technique that normally wouldn't qualify due to their wind reading skills but they would make a great team player - I can think of a few. Jannie Els comment "you need to be under 10cm vertical at 1000yards" Less is obviously better but you need this sort of accuracy as a minimum for a coach to be able to do his/her job. Try yourself out. Do you qualify??

Coach: This is the person that needs to be brilliant and the core of the team. When it gets down to it, apart from a couple of wayward shots, nearly all points are won or lost by the coaches wind calls. If we want to be successful in upcoming world f class we need to invest heavily in our coach and training him/her. Watching the best coaches in the world at the WLRC was an experience and a half. The top few stood out as brilliant. I don't think our guys did a bad job. they weren't far behind but honestly the best in the world stood out as the best - I guess this is the same for any sport (There is THE BEST and then THE REST). I also guess they spent a great deal of time training specifically for this event.

I AM SURE WE CAN HOLD OUR OWN AT UPCOMING WORLD F CLASS IF 1) EVERY TEAM SHOOTER GETS THEIR RIFLES TUNED WELL AND CONCENTRATES ON TECHNIQUE. 2) WE SELECT GREAT COACHES AND INVEST TIME EFFORT AND MONEY INTO GETTING THEM READY - They must be willing to do same - but what an honour.

I believe we have the talent here. Scoring for Rod at the Queens was amazing - no doubt he could do it but I know he would prefer to shoot. We also have many many very good wind readers in TR that could do the job and won't be shooting. Bisley or not the coach needs to spend the next 2 years making wind calls and firing (or getting someone else to fire)!!! and not waiting for the same condition or machine gunning even though these techniques will have to be used in final competition as well.

Cheers and keep smiling

Dave

John E · Post by **John E** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:46 am

You're showing your mediocrity now, Bruce, resorting to a personal attack.
I'll admit Latin was never my strong point -- or anyone else's. Perhaps that's why it's a dead language.
For your information, I enjoy shooting and coaching in difficult conditions. I don't need to shoot a perfect score to know that I've had a good shoot.
Good to see Richard flash into the play, too. He's been pretty quiet lately -- busy working on his 5 year plan, I suppose.

John