Lapua .284 brass life

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:39 am

Changing a bolt face will require re-headspacing a chamber which is easy with Savage barrel nut setup but a gunsmiths job with most others. It's almost developing another cartridge. It will most likely be pushed to higher pressures and bring with it a new level of expectations. Bad or good is another story.
If the issue can be solved with a brass recipe change, then that would be the simplest way for shooters.
If there is a difference between the old and new brass and Lapua identify and acknowledge that then it should be a realistic and achievable fault to rectify. If that results in a stronger straight .284 case being produced, then everybody including Lapua wins.
I think it's important that every body gets on board here to demonstrate to Lapua the importance of the issue for all .284 drivers and not jst a few willing to be proactive.
If there's a strong demand and lots of encouragement their decision will be positively influenced. If they feel the masses are willing to make do, then there will appear to be no great advantage in spending money to rectify the problem.

Post by **AlanF** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:46 am

If we're talking about redesigning the case, I wonder if small primers would work in a case that big? They work in a 308, which is about 80% of the capacity of the 284 case. If that worked, no need to change anything except perhaps firing pin?

Alan

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:01 pm

AlanF wrote:If we're talking about redesigning the case, I wonder if small primers would work in a case that big? They work in a 308, which is about 80% of the capacity of the 284 case. If that worked, no need to change anything except perhaps firing pin?
Alan

Alan, I asked this question of Lapua USA, and the CEO responded saying that Lapua would have straight 284W in the USA in twelve months. That was approx twelve months ago and also asked about SR primer pockets which received an immediate response of not suitable or being considered by Lapua. I asked this question on accurateshooter.com and got a quick reply from Lapua USA, CEO.

It seems we have to live with case head expansion for 180 grainers pushing 2900+ fps. The good news is Lapua should be producing straight 284W brass sometime soon.

Ian

agro · Post by **agro** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:24 pm

aaronraad,
Have you gotten any feedback from the BR group about the performance of the 8x68mm case performance??

thx

aaronraad · Post by **aaronraad** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:04 pm

agro,

Last I heard they were experiementing with necking down 8x68mm RWS to .308 cal in an attempt to produce a case with similar capacity to a 300 Winchester Magnum or 300 H&H Magnum. I'm not sure though if they're trying to drive the 187gr flat bases faster or just more consistently?

Some talk of necking down to 6.5mm for F-Class, as the 8x68mm brass is meant to be thicker than the standard 6.5x68mm brass?

Be on the look-out for a couple of SMc cases this year, one in 6mm the other in 6.5mm.

Aaron

Matt P · Post by **Matt P** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:43 pm

The 8 x 68 case has been necked down to quite a few different calibers, it's been used at the Fly and 1000BR on and off for years, from memory Ian Lample shot a 25cal, 6.5mm, 7mm and 30 cal versions all where quite good but very hard on barrels and bullets.
I am looking at going to a version of 280 AI to get away from the brass issue which I beleive will always be a issue in some form or another due to case design and our velocity expectations.

Matt P

flatlina · Post by **flatlina** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:18 am

Is there a reason to not use a 7 WSM instead of the .284 Win? You could acheive the required velocity at a reduced pressure. Is good brass fort eh WSM a problem?

Regards
john

RichardW · Post by **RichardW** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:23 am

Case selection has to factor in barrel life. I've run a couple of 284 Shehanes with barrel life into the 1000s and I run a 7mm Boo Boo (6.5 x 68s necked up and blown out) that died at the expected 800 round mark.

The Boo Boo is great as it sends 180 grainers out a 3050fps but you pay for it in barrel life. So the 284 with 168s is the go to calibre for me.

Ian Lampl used to run a 257 Banshee (great fun but you could not stand near it); a 6.5 Banshee (blew bullets); and a 30 Banshee - same parent case to the Boo Boo.

But there are better ways and better components these days.

aaronraad · Post by **aaronraad** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:40 am

flatlina wrote:Is there a reason to not use a 7 WSM instead of the .284 Win? You could acheive the required velocity at a reduced pressure. Is good brass fort eh WSM a problem?

Regards
john

I've seen Norma retail WSM brass and the retailers charge like it's Norma brass too.

My wildcat WSM case is being formed using Winchester brass. Reports on Winchester WSM brass range from very tight tolerances to very lose and batch-to-batch variations. Fortunatley I'm not responsible for purchasing the brass myself, let alone the 8 step forming process required before trim-to-lenght, neck turning and fire-forming.

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:06 pm

I'll be returning the email to Lapua tomorrow. It really would be great to get a few more batch numbers, especially older batches that haven't loosened primer pockets.

Final call!

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:56 pm

AlanF wrote:Thats an interesting approach Norm. I didn't know custom brass could be made to order. You could keep your existing chamber(s) and dies, but would need a magnum bolt face and not much else (shellholders etc). In my case (Barnard) I'm not sure whether that would require a new bolt, anyone? If a new bolt was required (approaching $1000 I believe) then I'd probably prefer going with a magnum (RSAUM or WSM), because of their larger powder capacity.

Alan

Alan,
Getting custom brass made up is not difficult. I have been testing some in a couple of different calibres for the last few months and it is quite good. Equal to or better than Lapua in strength and durability.

A magnum bolt face is not needed. (And would be actually too large) A simple opening up of the bolt face rim by 0.030" is all that is required. The existing extractor set up can be kept in most instances. The bolt face its self is not touched in this operation. The cost of this modification to the bolt would not be expensive in most cases. I would expect it to cost less than $150 as it is a very simple mod.

Changing a bolt face will require re-headspacing a chamber which is easy with Savage barrel nut setup but a gunsmiths job with most others.

As the bolt face itself is not touched, the headspace is unaltered. The barrel does not need any work done to it at all. This is a completely different situation.

Brad Y · Post by **Brad Y** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:50 am

Norm- if you got cases made up like that and they were as good as lapua Im pretty sure you will sell 3000 pretty quickly! Contemplating getting a 284W barrel for my pierce but the brass issues are pretty off putting. And shooting the 168's isnt much different to the 260 improved with 140gr bergers anyway...

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:16 am

Brad Y wrote:Norm- if you got cases made up like that and they were as good as lapua Im pretty sure you will sell 3000 pretty quickly! Contemplating getting a 284W barrel for my pierce but the brass issues are pretty off putting. And shooting the 168's isnt much different to the 260 improved with 140gr bergers anyway...

Hi Brad,
I am sure that this idea would work with the .284. The brass that has been removed on these rebated case for the extractor, has really weakened the primer pocket area. By increasing the rim diameter it should spread the bolt thrust forces over a larger surface area and not hammer the base so much..

But not everyone will want to modify their bolt to match the new brass as this would be the only cartridge that would fit. This may be an issue if they wanted to change calibres some time in the future. Or if the brass became hard to obtain. I'm not entirely sold on the idea myself for this reason

I am looking closely at the posibility and seeing if there are any other options.

aaronraad · Post by **aaronraad** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:54 am

Just talking with Mr Phil Mastin this week and a complete replacement Barnard bolt for a Model P action is around the $600 mark at the moment. Less if you don't require a complete bolt. This is just an indication, you need to talk to Phil to get an actual quote.

Post by **AlanF** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:50 pm

Talking to Pete van M today about the Lapua brass situation, and he thinks there was a general reduction in the hardness of Lapua brass around the time the blue boxes started. Apparently it was noticed in short range BR where the old 220 Russian cases just kept going, but new ones had to be loaded down.

So for anyone wanting to shoot 7mm, here's a few options :

(a) Try using 162 Hornady, 168 Berger and even SMK 175s will go a lot faster than the 180s with the same brass life.
(b) 284 Shehane (284 with less body taper) has slightly more capacity and hence less pressure.
(c) 280 AI, if it has more capacity(?) will have similar advantage to the Shehane.
(d) Probably the best option for pushing the 180s over 2900fps is a magnum. The RSAUM seems to be the most widely recommended as giving the best balance of performance, accuracy and barrel life.

Alan