what does it take to shoot 60.10??

[BATattack]

ok so after the recent queens at Belmont the bar had definatly been raised to a new level. scores like this don't just come from good conditions or excellent wind reading but ticking some important engineering boxes.

but what does it take for mere mortals to build and tune something capable of producing the perfect 60.10?? a with many things in life you can do all the basics well and have good results . . .take a bit more care and pay more attention to the fundamentals and have very good results. . . but if you want to have perfect results its the LITTLE things that put the icing on the cake.

for the sake of this discussion I think we all know this and therefor have to assume a perfect platform . . . . the perfect rifle where the action, barrel, chambering, bedding and scope are all mechanically perfect.

so from this we know that the rifle is perfect and can narrow down other variables. I would suggest the two main variables in a string of shots would be gun tracking/ handeling and ammunition.


for tracking and handeling I am talking about what is required from the front and rear rests and what the shooter has to do or not do to keep things in the x. ok so we all know that we should set up our rests in alignment BUT what next? what makes the difference between 60 and 60.10?

bag type/ lube and what type of lube or friction tape?
tight or loose tension on the front bag?
different types of sand or bag filling?
tightly packed or still pliable bags?
is free recoil nessicary?

ammunition . . . . WELL this is a massive topic in itself but as I mentioned earlier lets assume we are doing the fundamentals VERY well already. we have an accurate tested load, cases prepped, neck tuned, primers uniformed and weighed into batches. so the cases are as practical as possible to perfect. the projectiles we are using are quality brand name straight from the box and powder charge is weighed to nearest granule. so where to from here what does it take to make 60.10 ammo?

do we need to sort every bullet for bearing surface length? and if so to what kind of tolerance?
do we need to sort our bullets into weights? and to what tolerance?
should we medplat trim and point?
is it worth our time checking bullet diameters?
how much run out if any should we tolerate and what can we do to minimise it?
do we need to full length size after every firing?
do we and at what point should we aneal?

sorry for the long topic!! haha hopefully it doesn't run off into to heavy of a debate but just encourages some healthy discussion between some good heads in Australian F class.

[RDavies]

1st thing is good conditions.
I saw a few of the 60.10s at Belmont and none were shot in dead calm conditions. The flags were up when all of them were shot, usually around 10 kmh, but there was little mirage and the flags while being up, were going across the range consistently, not varying in speed and direction. Often when the shooter got a 60.10 at one range, they got a much low score with the same gun/load/equipment on the next range when the conditions were slightly different (though it was hard to pick the difference visually).

[BATattack]

Unfortunately i wasn't there to see some if the shooting myself but that runs in line with what I've herd from a few BR shooters. "NO" wind is a bad thing because there is always some form of air turbulence and its beta to have a clear indication that it is coming from a particular direction at a given strength.

[Brad Y]

It takes 10 shots in the X ring. I hit a 59.9 the weekend gone. Two words echo in my mind still... what if.

[DaveMc]

Having never shot one I can tell you some ways NOT to do it.


I think a lot of gear is capable of this given the right conditions as Rod mentioned above.

One thing you need is big balls. As discussed before if you want to see more of them you need to cut 6's as sighters. Stating the obvious you can't get a "60.10" if you keep 6's. If you cut all 6's as sighters you stand a much greater chance of getting one - but then you have to ask yourself "am I here to break records or win championships."

On the old 10 ring target everyone was cutting 9's as sighters and hence the prevalence of "100's" was much greater (also because of the slightly bigger target but don't underestimate this factor).

[Gadget]

You are spot on with that comment Dave, I have had 3 x 60/9's and kept a six sighter each time.

Gadget

[macguru]

Having a good rifle sure helps. I managed a 66.11 but it was with one of the rifles that got a 60.10 last weekend in brisbane so its done it more than once ....

[BATattack]

Having a good rifle sure helps. I managed a 66.11 but it was with one of the rifles that got a 60.10 last weekend in brisbane so its done it more than once ....

Wow! That's some good shooting! What cal?

So we've determined we need good/predictable conditions and MASSIVE coconuts!! Haha

What lengths do you feel you NEED to go to with the topics mentioned in the original post to be able to take advantage when those conditions come up??

I honestly don't remember what my highest score is but i think it was a 60.7. The 60. With decent x counts have all been shot with my 6.5x47 running a good load with berger bullets straight from the box. Cases prepped , fire formed with light neck tension and loaded in redding dies. There's nothing too technical about what i do but then again there's probably nothing too outstanding about my results! Haha

[Brad Y]

I would expect 300, 500, 700 would be the ranges you would get it done easiest but Matt Paroz nailed his at 800 from memory. Darn fine shootin

[bruce moulds]

the few times i shot 100 on the old target was in strong but consistent wind, and each time was a surprise.
afterward it seemed easy, and i am actually prouder of some much lower scores that took a battle to achieve.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Matt P]

LUCK !!!

Matt P

[AlanF]

FWIW here's my take on Super Vs. With our current scoring system, they are rarely important to the outcome of major shoots. One of those rare occasions happened in F-Open in last year's SARA Queens, where I was the victim of my own low X count . However I would never cut a second sighter 6, and sometimes deliberately favour one side (or top/bottom) of the X ring for various reasons. The major scoring ring is the 6, and getting a 60.anything is always satisfying, particularly at long range and/or in tricky conditions. When looking at aggregate scores of major shoots, its interesting to look for high point scores with low X-counts. What this can indicate is a good shooter with a not so accurate rifle.

All that said, its whatever turns you on. Nailing a long string of Xs is very nice. If a 60.10 happens to me, I won't be declining to sign the card!

The best 60.10 that I've heard about was by Rod Mahon at 900yds in the Vic Queens in 2012. The ultimate will be when its achieved at 1000yds. Dave Mc may have done that on Sunday if he'd been allowed to fire 3 more shots .

Alan

[BATattack]

I DID shoot a 199 / 200 over two details at a club shoot 300yds. no idea how I did it! this was back when I was using a home made front rest made at high school and a rubbish rear bag but it worked!

dave zerbe's 60.9 at 800 at the 2012 SA queens was a pretty damn good effort considering the conditions that year!

would it be fair to say that 800 would be an "easy" range due to the same target being used for 800, 900 and 1000?

[AlanF]

Adam,

700m out to 1000yd all use the LR target, so 700m and 800yd are fairly generous, but 800m is no gimme. Some particularly mean targets in terms of subtended ring size are 400m and 700yd, but I would expect 1000yd to be the last one to surrender a 60.10. That's why Dave's shoot was impressive.

Alan

[RDavies]

LUCK !!!

Matt P

I do remember scoring for someone at a queens in Belmont who got a 60.10 a few years ago. His previous scores were all in the 54-57 area with a low X count. He then got a 60.10 before returning to his usual scores. He was overly pleased as the 60.10 was his first ever 60.