Brad Y wrote:Im more than happy with the current situation of 2 sighters. Like has been mentioned the first shot off a clean barrel can be taken into account. My first sighter at 900yds was shot off a clean barrel in Tasmania. I cleaned the night before only because we were down to 3 rifles for the longs and that barrel works best with no more than 4 normal ranges or around 50 shots through it. I knew to hold a minute higher for the first shot and it was an x, I held down to normal hold after that and second sighter was a low 6, from there I made no adjustments and finished with a 60 with good waterline. I know that barrel and how it works, theres no reason why anyone else cant learn that with their own gear.
My troublesome 7mm seems to take a few more shots to settle down and I do the same as Alan at the moment- clean it then burnish with moly paste before shooting moly coated bullets. Working with a magnetospeed it took 4 shots to settle into giving what I would consider a "stable velocity" reading each shot even though it still isnt tuned yet. Im not expecting that to change but wont know for a few weeks yet. I get proven wrong often with this barrel though.
Brad - some barrels not only fall low but literally can't hold a group for a few shots. You cannot learn their idiosynchracies.
Yes Alan - The "ICFRA" blow off routine would be hard to implement but the unlimited sighters used in US Nationals would work well in our squadding system.
DaveMc wrote:Yes Alan - The "ICFRA" blow off routine would be hard to implement.
Dave,
The English system incorporated into the ICFRA rules can be implemented relatively simply. If there's enough space between targets, then that's where the blow off shots go. If there's not, then targets can be called down on a shooter by shooter basis. That's how they implemented it for Match Rifle shoots when I was in Britain in 06.
Hand in hand with English rule blow off concession is that you don't watch the fall of shot. They aren't quasi sighters.
Was that stated at Raton or have they become sighters without targets?
John
PS: How would unlimited sighters go on ETs (particularly when shooting Bisley triples)?
DaveMc wrote: Brad - some barrels not only fall low but literally can't hold a group for a few shots. You cannot learn their idiosynchracies.
Dave- you have shot alot longer than I have, but Ive never seen that. I hope I never do actually.
But I think we as shooters these days have good enough management skills to go to a shoot with guns that are reliable enough for the level your competing at. Not saying that I wouldnt take advantage of blowoffs and extra sighters, but the rules are pretty fair now in my opinion.
DaveMc wrote:Yes Alan - The "ICFRA" blow off routine would be hard to implement.
Dave,
The English system incorporated into the ICFRA rules can be implemented relatively simply. If there's enough space between targets, then that's where the blow off shots go. If there's not, then targets can be called down on a shooter by shooter basis. That's how they implemented it for Match Rifle shoots when I was in Britain in 06.
Hand in hand with English rule blow off concession is that you don't watch the fall of shot. They aren't quasi sighters.
Was that stated at Raton or have they become sighters without targets?
John
PS: How would unlimited sighters go on ETs (particularly when shooting Bisley triples)?
John,
There wasn't a lot of time for the blow off shots,all the team firers had to get their shots away quickly before the actual match time began.After the first blow off shots were fired the Range Officer asked that in future,blow off shots were to be fired into the buttstop,not up and down the range. Obviously some aiming was needed.
Mike.
johnk wrote:...Hand in hand with English rule blow off concession is that you don't watch the fall of shot. They aren't quasi sighters.
Was that stated at Raton or have they become sighters without targets? ...
John,
I don't remember being instructed not to watch the fall of shot. I could see the strike and used them as a check on windage, but of course they struck below target elevation. I thought the ICFRA procedure was quite chaotic and potentially dangerous, and thought the US system was better. They are quasi sighters but the key point is everyone has the option of using them that way. Furthermore they were only allowed for the first range each day, when conditions were quite gentle, so the sighter benefits were minimal. Easier morning conditions is a general characteristic of nearly all ranges I've shot on.
This sport is supposed to be about accuracy, marksmanship and wind reading.
In my opinion, sighter shots take away these skills by letting the shooter have a few cheating shots before they start.
With no sighter shots, a good wind reader will score higher on their first shot than a poor wind reader. As they should!
With sighter shots, a poor wind reader can get onto the 6 ring with their sighter shots. Then if they get a good run with conditions, they can machine gun their shots and end up with a 60.
With no sighter shots this would not happen and the poor wind reader would drop those initial few points getting onto the 6 ring.
Get rid of the sighter shots! This would add an exciting new dimension to our great sport.
Norm wrote:Get rid of the sighter shots! This would add an exciting new dimension to our great sport.
I agree with you it would do that Norm. We have the 1000 yard One Shot Wonder novelty event at Rosedale where all you get is your first sighter! This year the closest out of 37 shooters was a bulls-eye (the only one). Most were in the two ring !
Norm wrote:This sport is supposed to be about accuracy, marksmanship and wind reading. In my opinion, sighter shots take away these skills by letting the shooter have a few cheating shots before they start. With no sighter shots, a good wind reader will score higher on their first shot than a poor wind reader. As they should! With sighter shots, a poor wind reader can get onto the 6 ring with their sighter shots. Then if they get a good run with conditions, they can machine gun their shots and end up with a 60.
With no sighter shots this would not happen and the poor wind reader would drop those initial few points getting onto the 6 ring.
Get rid of the sighter shots! This would add an exciting new dimension to our great sport.
Norm,
It may add an exiting new dimension to our great sport,but for how many,the top shooters don't need any more advantages.
Mike.
Norm wrote:This sport is supposed to be about accuracy, marksmanship and wind reading. In my opinion, sighter shots take away these skills by letting the shooter have a few cheating shots before they start. With no sighter shots, a good wind reader will score higher on their first shot than a poor wind reader. As they should! With sighter shots, a poor wind reader can get onto the 6 ring with their sighter shots. Then if they get a good run with conditions, they can machine gun their shots and end up with a 60.
With no sighter shots this would not happen and the poor wind reader would drop those initial few points getting onto the 6 ring.
Get rid of the sighter shots! This would add an exciting new dimension to our great sport.
Norm,
It may add an exiting new dimension to our great sport,but for how many,the top shooters don't need any more advantages.
Mike.
mike H wrote: Norm, It may add an exiting new dimension to our great sport,but for how many,the top shooters don't need any more advantages. Mike.
Just the opposite Mike.
Those with the million dollar 60/10 rifles may loose more points than the shooter with a 59/4 rifle who is a better wind reader.
At the moment, F-Open has turned into a match of who has the better rifle, has the quickest marker and can get their shots away fastest.
Just how do all these rifles that shoot 1 moa low on the first clean bore shot do it????
Sounds strange to me. Just what velocity change due to a clean barrel will give a consistent 1 MOA lower elevation at 300 yards and also at 1000 yards. It just doesn't happen.
Sure at one distance this could be possible but not across the entire course. Try this at 1200 yards in a LR F-class event and you will be lucky to be on the target at all.
!
Menu
Newest members