Borescope evidence of the death of a very good barrel

[AlanF]

Maybe we'd better bring in a forensic expert from NCIS. They would have this solved in about 45 minutes (between ads), plus we could hear about some crisis in their personal life as bonus! Sorry Tony - it must be the humidity here in Tennant Creek .

[KHGS]

Tony,

Are you sure with the canted lands that the rod is actually turning with the rifling at the same twist rate as the rifling, rather than slipping or partially slipping over the lands as you push in the rod.
The part of the rod where the jag screws onto the rod is made of steel and could be marking the lands.
Just a thought.

I believe Norm may be very close to the mark, Dave Mc's comment about "foreign" objects in the powder is also a possibility although less likely.
Keith H.

[Cameron Mc]

Tony,

Are you sure with the canted lands that the rod is actually turning with the rifling at the same twist rate as the rifling, rather than slipping or partially slipping over the lands as you push in the rod.
The part of the rod where the jag screws onto the rod is made of steel and could be marking the lands.
Just a thought.

I believe Norm may be very close to the mark, Dave Mc's comment about "foreign" objects in the powder is also a possibility although less likely.
Keith H.

This is way off the mark.

Years ago a friend sold his Sako factory 6ppc. He sold the rifle with 2-300 cases. The cases were primed so before he shipped the rifle and cases he fired all primed cases in that rifle. To his horror, that action wrecked the barrel. From memory it was extremely hard to clean the carbon and crap from the barrel. Afterwards we looked through the barrel and it looked as though someone had pushed no. 8 fencing wire through the barrel a hundred times.
I put it down to the hard ceramic primer compound going down the barrel.

Cam

[ecomeat]

I clean every day.....so after 22-25 at a normal Club day, and after 32-36 at a Queens or OPM....occasionally up to 50 max if 4 ranges.
The two Maddcos have been well rotated with the two Bartleins.
There is nothing whatsoever visible on the Maddco lands. Zero, zilch, nothing.
Same rods, same jags, brushes, solvents, oils, patches, technique and operator. Also same powder, primers, projectiles.
Maddco #1 has 1400 rounds through it, and the top of the Lands, plus the grooves are as smooth as a baby's bum. Shiny smooth with not a SINGLE scratch/gouge.
Maddco #2 has 712 shots fired, and is virtually identical to Maddco #1 on the lands and grooves. Shiny perfection. The only wear is the sharp corner rounded off both edges of the Lands, on both Maddco barrels, which has to be absolutely normal .
If the issue was in any way related to cleaning, there would have to be some sort of visible damage to both Maddco barrels. There is none.

[AlanF]

Cam,

Are you saying the cases were primed, with no powder?

Alan

[Cameron Mc]

Cam,

Are you saying the cases were primed, with no powder?

Alan

That's correct Alan. It was a long time ago but I remember this clearly.

Cam

[Malcolm Hill]

Tony
Just wondering if your case prep includes tumbling cases in the stainless pin media set up. I have always wondered what the result would be if any pins were stuck in a case for whatever reason and were then loaded and fired.
Regards Malcolm.

[ecomeat]

Malcolm,
I do use a Thumler Tumbler with the stainless steel pins, but its newish, and hasn't been used on cases fired in this barrel.
Like you I am very concerned about what might happen, so I dry my cases after a very thorough flushing 3 or more times under running water, plus filling 2 or 3 cases at a time in a plastic bowl of water and multiple draining, then placing them on a "nail bed" of 3" nails driven into a piece of maple.
The nails are 1/2" apart so I can then run my fingers up and down the rows of inverted cases as they dry, which would knock any pins out that happened to be hiding inside a case.
I have tumbled about 1000 cases so far, in lots of 80-100 and there has never been a single pin fall out of the cases whilst they are on the Nail Board. I make sure that they get well spun on top of the 3" nails when dripping wet, plus 2-3 times as they dry, and again when totally dry and warm from the sun. As I said, not a single pin has been found on the slab of maple that the nails are in, and they would be easily seen if they were there.
After flushing and rinsing the tumbler carefully, I then put a decent handful into a 4 litre clear plastic bottle with a wide mouth, 3/4 full of clean water.
I then pick up 3-5 cases at a time,making sure they are all orientated the same way.
Then I submerse and fill the 3-5 cases, tip out, reverse and fill them , tip out etc. I do this maybe 3 or 4 times, in crystal clear water, and am very confident that there are no pins stuck inside my brass.
It might sound pedantic, but its a lot quicker than it sounds. I estimate it takes me around 15 mins , from the time I start rinsing out the bowl, to where I have 100 or so cases drying on top of my Nail Board

[Razer]

Wrong site.

[bartman007]

Maybe the heat treatment on this barrel was not effective?

How did it go when it was first run in? Did it pick up a lot of copper? Did you notice whether it took longer to run in? Has it ever shot well, or only mediocre?

[jasmay]

Tony, if you do contact Bartlien I woudl love to here how it progresses, keep us well informed please.

[BATattack]

Maybe the heat treatment on this barrel was not effective?

How did it go when it was first run in? Did it pick up a lot of copper? Did you notice whether it took longer to run in? Has it ever shot well, or only mediocre?

I'm thinking the same. Something to do with heat treatment.

Whatever way you slice it . . . . It's not right.

You have some good pictures and you won't be using that barrel again so there shouldn't be any issues with getting the photo's and/ or the barrel back to bartline for assessment. You've got enough data that should prove your more than just a casual barrel user.

[ecomeat]

Maybe the heat treatment on this barrel was not effective?

How did it go when it was first run in? Did it pick up a lot of copper? Did you notice whether it took longer to run in? Has it ever shot well, or only mediocre?

Mike,
It was certainly a tough one to break in. I do the one and clean x 3, two and clean x 3, 3 and clean x 3, then 5 and clean until it cleans easily.
This was a really tough mother ! Some of the first 10-15 shot cleans took 4, 5 and even 6 repetitions using Sweets. I checked with the bore scope after every clean, and if there was still copper visible, then I calmly did it again.
After some 47 shots, it cleaned very easily and under my "system", I declared it to be "broken in" and started shooting 10-12 shot matches between cleans.
It was a wonderfully accurate barrel, and was the one I was shooting that I let slip away, at the Sydney Queens last year when Roderick beat me on "X's".
Finished that Queens with 403 shots through it.
At the end of the ACT Queens it was 588 shots fired, and in hindsight...as I printed earlier.... maybe my poor ACT Queens with the Bartlein after a great Leadup using a Maddco (2nd to Rod D again) was partially to do with barrel condition, as much as it was to do with my dodgy pointing of Berger 180 gr VLDs.
I mean...the new arrivals to just shoot the Queens were certainly good....but they weren't THAT good were they ?
You probably didn't look that far down the Results board, but I had a shocker
At the time I put it down to the over pointing, but now I am wondering .....

[ecomeat]

You have some good pictures and you won't be using that barrel again so there shouldn't be any issues with getting the photo's and/ or the barrel back to bartline for assessment. You've got enough data that should prove your more than just a casual barrel user.

Adam,
I actually just started a little test yesterday. I am going to shoot it at local Club events and not clean it for at least 200 rounds, to see if copper can fill in the ugly voids and finally give a bullet a smooth path to the muzzle.
It was well cleaned for the photos, and I shot 32 thru it yesterday starting with 5 foulers before I left home.
At 500 yards I dropped 5 Pts, so 55/60 first string and then 64/66 the second string .
A quick look thru the borescope last night showed very little "filling in of the voids", so I have a long way to go ! I will just keep shooting it for 200-300 shots and see what happens.

[bartman007]

Tony,

If it is a poorly heat treated barrel, you should be able to get it hardness tested to prove that it is in fact under design hardness.

That would give you evidence to go back to the supplier and demand a replacement/refund.

You should be able to get hardness measurements on most surfaces. If you were to take a slice off the end of your barrel, and cut it across the diameter, you should be able to get the hardness level at the bottom of the lands. This area has not been impacted by projectiles and should give a reasonable measurement of the original hardness.

I have not had a barrel look like yours ever.

On another note, during the chambering process, your armourer may have noted that it was soft to machine. However, that is some time ago now so he may no longer remember or have it noted down?


Good luck.