Magnetospeed

[Julian D]

Can anyone tell me if it is ok ( legal ) to use one of these in a comp ?

The majority of my shooting is done up here in mid / north QLD , where temps normally hover between the mid 20's to the low 30's . But I have shot at 2 different places where the morning temps would be lucky to be mid teens . Putting my loads out of my normal nodes .

It would be handy to be able to put the chrony on for the first sighter , see the speed & then have loaded ammo to suit those temps .....

Is this something that would be ok ?

[johnk]

I think that the only requirement would be that you comply with weight & time limits and range safety.

[williada]

Only the old guys would remember John Collinson, a former NRAA secretary who always offered sound advice when it came to the rules. When asked a similar question, but with regard to a large foresight block for barrel tuning, he said to me, “You can hang dancing girls off a barrel if you want to, so long as your rifle is not overweight”. Nothing in the new rules say otherwise to my knowledge. So I would agree with JohnK.

If you are going to tune with a MAGNETO SPEED make an identical detachable weight to replace it with and leave that on the barrel when the Magneto is off so your groups don’t get distorted.

[Julian D]

Thanks .

[AlanF]

In my opinion, it would be okay to have one on the barrel (but switched off) in order to maintain the barrel harmonics used when testing, but to use it to give velocity information during a competition, even for sighters, would give unfair advantage, and there is a rule against that.

[johnk]

Alan,

My perspective is that an unfair advantage is achieved when the aid is substantially unique or largely unavailable, which I don't believe is the case with the Magnetospeed.

From another perspective, I'm not at all convinced that an advantage would be gained, except in the mind of those easily mindf***ed, so if a protest were lodged on that basis.....

John

[DaveMc]

Hi John,
I would think this gives advantage to someone who has individual readouts on each shot: -
e.g. that shot went low - check magnetospeed - oh yes it was 40 fps down for some reason so I won't adjust. If velocity was the same then you might think about it differently. I used one in a club match and immediately saw the advantage with my plotting. At 1000 yards nearly all my elevation was explained in v and helps immensely with elevation adjustment.

Also as OP has asked - would be a huge advantage to know your actual velocity. Starting to get some vertical - oh look I have just climbed out of my node.....- better reload for next range (or adjust tuner etc, pick up lighter loaded rounds etc). Those without velocity readout have to do a lot more thinking and experimentation. How good would it be to turn up to a queens with 600 rounds loaded. Some above your normal, some on and some below. Within a couple of shots you would know where you need to be (perhaps without dropping points?? - whereas now you really need to turn up and shoot the leadup and experiment.

yes it is commercially available but so are applied ballistics kestrels etc.

It would be equivalent of having an anemometer on the mound in my view. But I would interpret as Alan has - mounted but electronic readout unplugged would be fine.

[AlanF]

...an unfair advantage is achieved when the aid is substantially unique or largely unavailable...

The cost of a Magnetospeed will effectively make it out of the question for many. If allowed I believe it would become a "must have" item for serious competitors.

[williada]

Yes, Dave and Alan I would have to agree with you both, mounted and unplugged would be fine. I assumed that to be the case in my response as far as competition goes but was more concerned about the group shape and position a different muzzle weight in the form of the Magneto Speed would induce.

We look to group shape to determine the need for a load change or tuner change by observing patterns in our plots, so if you are going to use one in club practice just beware of the difference in weight on the muzzle has on the compensating distance and the fine tuning of group shape. So if you have the skill to duplicate the weight position on the muzzle that you use in load development with a Magneto Speed attached to the barrel with another weight when the Magneto Speed is off, then you will more than likely be able to correlate testing with competition.

There is no doubt the Magneto Speed is great for measuring velocity to establish whether you are on a predetermined node.

[Julian D]

How good would it be to turn up to a queens with 600 rounds loaded. Some above your normal, some on and some below. Within a couple of shots you would know where you need to be (perhaps without dropping points?? - whereas now you really need to turn up and shoot the leadup and experiment.

This was exactly where I was heading with this , take extra rounds , loaded to different speeds to suit those temps encountered .
As it is now , I won't see a cold morning until about June ...... So I cannot do any cold weather testing before some prize shoots .

So if I understand what you guys are saying , it is illegal to use one in a comp ? An unfair advantage .

[shooter mcreid]

Hello Julian,
I have heard of one person who was told he couldn't shoot the pm with a v3 operating at the same time due to the two previously stated reasons of electronics on the mound and gaining an advantage. At the end of the day it would come down to the officials and RO as to how it's enforced. Maybe to help Julian, someone could key in some values into some ballistic software and get a estimation of change in velocity between 30 degrees and 15, this might give you an idea of what will work.

[Julian D]

Thanks Shooter

This is exactly the info I am chasing .

So if I get one of these ballistic software programs it will do this for me ?

Can anyone tell me which one is the better one to get ?

[AlanF]

Julian,

Another way of determining how your velocity will change with temperature is to test on a day when the temperature starts low and rises significantly. Load up a dozen or more cases with your typical load then fire a couple of shots at 5 degree intervals throughout the day. A Magnetospeed would be ideal for this because they are less sensitive to changes in light. For best results I'd start the testing with a pre-fouled barrel.

Regarding ballistics programs, the one on the Berger website is free and does everything I want.

Alan

[Julian D]

Thanks Alan , appreciate it .

[shooter mcreid]

Julian, One is called quickload. It won't give you all the answer but it should give you an estimation of velocity increase on a hot day compared to a cooler one. If you find your rifle likes a certain velocity it should be able to help you calculate what change in load you need to get back to that sweet spot. It is an estimation as all barrels are different but should get you close. Possibly someone on the forum who already has it could help Julian out or correct me if I'm wrong?