Palma versus LR brass

[Josh Cox]

Hi everyone,

Would be interested to know what the average weight difference is between Lapua Palma brass and the standard LR brass in 308 ?

[Razer]

My older (bought 10 years ago)Lapua large primer cases weighed between 177.2 and 178.6grns. Trimmed to a length of 2 inches after several firings brought it back 172grs.
New Lapua Palma seems to have 2 weights in any one box, namely around 170.7 or 171.4 grs. The difference averages 0.7 of a grain. I sort to those 2 weights.
With the thicker web one would think that the Palma brass would weigh heavier but not according to me. As I have mentioned in a previous thread about large and small primers, my propellant weight is the same for both cases so there is not any discernable effect on performance. In reality, the only difference between the two cases is the size of the primer pocket so not a lot of brass involved. Main benefit is number of stiffer loads you get out of the Palma.

Writing on my reloading table has ex-military 70's ADI brass as the heaviest at 179grs.
PMC at 174grs +/-.
RWS at 169 to 170grs.
HPS at 170grs and very consistent.
Remington varies a bit but I had 167 grs as a working weight. Only used for hunting loads.
Winchester is approx. 158grs. Surprisingly rather consistent.

[jasmay]

Out of curiosity, why the question Josh?

[Josh Cox]

Jason,

Many are of the opinion that palma brass for ftr is the only way to go, from what I've also seen, palma brass is lighter than standard lr, so is it a furfy or fact...... still undecided....

[johnk]

Palma was designed on the mechanical principal that there is more metal in the head of the case & therefore it can stand more pressure. It was designed for the group of shooters who believed that horsepower overcomes skill.

[Razer]

Palma was designed on the mechanical principal that there is more metal in the head of the case & therefore it can stand more pressure. It was designed for the group of shooters who believed that horsepower overcomes skill.

Well there you go.
I was always of the belief that the Palma brass was developed to utilise the perceived better ignition of the small primer in an attempt to duplicate how it works in the very accurate 6 and 6.5X47.(and possibly the 6BR)
I do not shoot FTR so my cases are never stressed with shooting only 155gr projectiles.
I find little benefit, if any, in using Palma cases for Fclass. I mainly use RWS, Lapua, and probably the best and most uniform case for weight is the HPS brass.
When I bought Palma cases, which was as soon as they came out, it was to try and utilise the advantage the small primer gave.
I have yet to see any advantage but that may be because I am only an average shooter so cannot capitalise on such a small improvement.

Josh. Palma brass is lighter than standard Lapua brass but not enough to make any appreciable difference.

[williada]

Can't say I have seen any difference in accuracy either Ray in .308. John is right about the head reinforcement, and if FTR could stuff more juice into the case they would. It boils down to how long the cases will last.

[jasmay]

Yes quite simply as john has put it is about a bit more horsepower.

It may have been designed for that horsepower vs. skill group, but I don't think anyone is Naïve to the fact that skill is the main key these days.

That said, if you have the skill, I am firmly of the opinion you will perform better with more ponies under the bonnet, as long as they are not compromising accuracy.

[BATattack]

Palma was designed on the mechanical principal that there is more metal in the head of the case & therefore it can stand more pressure. It was designed for the group of shooters who believed that horsepower overcomes skill.

I think you might find the original intention was to utilize a small primer in an effort to reduce ES and SD which has worked so well in cases like the 6br and 6.5x47. In actual use it seems there us an added bonus of a case head that can handle more pressure.

[ShaneG]

There is no doubt the Palma case can handle higher pressure
As a result higher velocities are achievable than LR cases if one
has a strong action and well gunsmithed barrel.

I would have thought that the real .308 horsepower crowd would
be found within the Match Rifle competitors! And I doff my cap to
anyone competing at 1200 yards and a .308 case!

I see F Class as the Formula 1 of long range shooting.
Glad and privileged to be a part of it.
I shoot F/TR because it is the international sport and I gravitated to
it from F Std otherwise I would have been F Open.
Talking with a couple of the Australian TR guys last year before
Camp Perry and the top guys there are using most of the
best reloading practises found in F Class!
That is "horsepower" as well maybe?

A TR competitor with a 1/4 moa rifle and load is possible.
Good on any of them chasing this level and they will have
an advantage over any less accurate rifle.

That is considering equal wind reading skills!

Which Jason has already pointed out!

I think all this shows how far we have advanced in just the last
3 years!
Accurate horsepower and great coaches will bring home the gold at Connaught!
Shane

[bsouthernau]

I would have thought that the real .308 horsepower crowd would
be found within the Match Rifle competitors! And I doff my cap to
anyone competing at 1200 yards and a .308 case!

Thank you Shane. However I'll modestly point out that the target is bigger and the 6/v bull ring at 1200 subtends only a marginally smaller angle than the ICFRA target at 1000. There's still an extra 200 yards for something to go wrong in though.

Barry