Barrel break in and moly coated bullets?

[Tim N]

My most accurate barrel wasn't run in at all, just picked a load and shot it.
As luck would have it the chosen load proved most accurate and it's been happy for approx 1200 rounds so far
My saums have taken more effort

[Razer]

My 100gm of moly is about run out (after doing about 25,000 bullets ). So where can I get WS2?

Alan, I got mine from this company and it is no where near as expensive now as it was then.
Sent them an email and arranged payment and it arrived via ordinary mail, no problems with it at all.
From memory I bought a pound weight and it came in 2 plastic bags in a cardboard box. Company was easy to deal with.

http://www.lowerfriction.com/product-pa ... tegoryID=1

Edit: The package was sent airmail and the postage then was not that much.

[jasmay]

A question that keeps bugging me.
If these coatings are temp resistant up to 650 C how do they perform their design function in a chamber which reaches temps much higher than that?
Would not their properties be destroyed almost instantaneously?
Anybody have any knowledge on this?

Without putting to much thought into it Barry, the heat is in the chamber behind the projectile right? so in essence, each time you shoot the coating on the projectile, which seals the gases behind it, is unaffected by heat.

[Barry Davies]

Not quite, as the rear end of the projectile from ogive transition point to base is still subject to the blast until such time as the full projectile is within the groove.
Maybe everything happens so quickly that the projectile has not time to heat up significantly.

[johnk]

The ones I've seen stuck around the stop butt seem to be caring something black

[Tim L]

A question that keeps bugging me.
If these coatings are temp resistant up to 650 C how do they perform their design function in a chamber which reaches temps much higher than that?
Would not their properties be destroyed almost instantaneously?
Anybody have any knowledge on this?

They don't actually decompose until around the 1200 degree mark Barry (WS2 a little higher than MoS2). From the 650 mark the friction does start to increase but WS2 has the advantage that as pressure increases it works to reduce the friction again. With MoS2 the friction reduction is all but lost at 350 degrees!

I have no idea what pressures the sides of the projectiles experience but moly can only withstand 225000psi while WS2 can handle 400000psi.

I don't think there are any certainties really, just WS2 has more chance of achieving than moly.

One could shell out for Buckminster Fullerines if money were no object. Tiny carbon footballs that are all but indestructible, a bit more expensive than gold though!

[Longranger]

A question that keeps bugging me.
If these coatings are temp resistant up to 650 C how do they perform their design function in a chamber which reaches temps much higher than that?
Would not their properties be destroyed almost instantaneously?
Anybody have any knowledge on this?

That's a good question. My guess is that the surface temperature of the barrel steel doesn't get hot enough to degrade the lubricating qualities enough to matter. The exception is the throat area and just beyond which cops the brunt of the combustion process. But even in that area would likely benefit somewhat, but the blast of hot gases and burning powder particles is always going to erode metal regardless of how good the lubricating qualities are.

[Peter L]

I'm using moly powder and I'd like to have a go with WS2.My question is:how do you coat the projectiles,like the moly method,using a tumbler and ceramic bits?How much WS2 do you use for every 100 bullets?I'd appreciate some instruction ,please.

Thanks
Peter

[Razer]

I put the washed and dried projectiles(use shellite to clean any residue off) in glass jars that have ball bearings in them. Add 1/4 teaspoon WS2, screw on lids and I usually run some electrical tape around just to make sure the lids do not come adrift. I use two jars and put them in the media on opposite sides of the tumbler. Turn on and leave for 3 hours.
The jars rotate in the tumbler so impact the WS2 onto the projectiles via the ball bearings.
I use a large peanut butter plastic jar with a series of holes drilled in the lid so that when I empty the contents from the glass jar into it, all the bearings drop through the holes leaving behind the projectiles.
I use an old tea towel (now that pantyhose is scarce) and by rolling the projectiles back and forth they come up nicely polished.
If you are a bit heavy handed with the WS2 it is not wasted as it is still in the jars or on the bearings.
I think that about 50+ in each jar was what I fitted in for a top job.
When finished there is absolutely no residue to come off on your fingers so just load as you normally do.
I bought the steel ball bearings in a kilo lot as it was over a hundred times dearer to buy by a number.
My finished projectiles(308) look every bit as good as Lapua's.
Pulled some that were coated over 3 years ago and even after being seated and then gripped by the puller they were still perfect.
I can check the ratio of projectiles to bearings if you wish to pursue this method as not having enough will, I believe, give you an inferior finish. Also size(about equal to 177 calibre).

[Peter L]

Thaks for your lengthy answer.I need a few more things.I have three calibres,6,6.5, 7mm.So if you like to give me,size of ball bearings and ratio or any other ideas ,it'd be terrific.
Cheers
Peter

[AlanF]

Ray,

Thanks for the info. I have 200gm of WS2 to collect on Saturday. A club mate imported a pound of it for about $A160 delivered and I will have half of it. He has been wet molying, so will do the same with WS2. I do dry molying using an almost identical method to yours, so will try it on the WS2.

Tim,

One of the criticisms of moly is that it can absorb moisture, so a bore left for a long period with moly in it may be adversely affected. Is WS2 better in this regard?

Alan

[Razer]

Thaks for your lengthy answer.I need a few more things.I have three calibres,6,6.5, 7mm.So if you like to give me,size of ball bearings and ratio or any other ideas ,it'd be terrific.
Cheers
Peter

The bearings are 3/16in diameter and I bought 500grams.
I gave them a quick weigh on the kitchen scales and it comes out close so confirms that.
Not being pedantic here, it is just what I use.
390gr glass 333 sandwich pickle jars as they fit the tumbler perfectly and have screw top lids.
My belief is that the coating, no matter what you use, needs to be impacted onto the projectiles and plastic jars don't do that.
So, in the each jar goes 250gms of 3/16 ball bearings(which is just under a third of the jar). I then put 100 x 155 308 projectiles in, which brings it up to two thirds full. 1/4 teaspoon of WS2 in each. As a precaution I use electrical tape around lid(I wouldn't appreciate sifting ball bearings, projectiles and media out!).
Place in media of tumbler on opposite sides and you will see that the jars actually rotate in the tumbler which adds to the evenness of the coating. 3 hours run time is what I consider about right, longer is better. My tumbler is just the run of the mill Lyman with walnut media which I still use to clean my brass. Rest of procedure in first post.
Again, my belief, I aim to lubricate the projectile and only slightly coat the barrel, not to use the pill as a means of coating the barrel as if I left that much coating on, then it will may just become another problem?????
I use 780gm Kraft peanut butter jars for many things like storing sorted brass, and, one of these with the lid drilled will separate the pills from the bearings. I had to open a glass jar to weigh the bearings and the WS2 has a coating on the glass and the bearings and, as although it is over 3 years since I last used them the contents were A1. I also store the WS2 in its original 1/2 pound plastic bag in one just in case there is a tendency to attract moisture.
WS2 is the finest micron coating you can get so the end product has a coated projectile that looks like it is naturally black.
I have some rough photos on the IPad and can send them to an email address, Messaging or Messenger as I don't think that I can load them to PC then make them up-loadable since Windows 10 bypasses Picaso to the Cloud!!!!!!!!!!!.
I still cleaned after each shoot so have no idea re: moisture absorption with WS2, but haven't been shooting for awhile due to stuffed shoulder so until/if I get that fixed, every thing is on hold.
Ray.

[Peter L]

Hi Ray
Your description was a very detailed one and I thank you so much.My next thing is to order a pound of WS2 from Canada.
Cheers, and look after your shoulder.
Peter

[Tim L]

Ray,

Tim,

One of the criticisms of moly is that it can absorb moisture, so a bore left for a long period with moly in it may be adversely affected. Is WS2 better in this regard?

Alan

Alan,
The only scientific evidence of moly or WS2 being hygroscopic is when its being used as a transition material in electronics, and that's almost atom level. We are using monstrous 0.6 micron bits. As a dry powder it will, of course, take on moisture from the surrounding atmosphere, but that's a bit different from being hygroscopic. They are both crystalline, both grown in alcohol rather than water, so why either would want water I couldn't say. It will have zero effect.

I keep mine in a bag, in a tub with a sealed lid, then mix it with water to apply it anyway! Go figure that logic!
I do know WS2 won't 'layer up' like moly so the possibility of it holding water is far less.
Personally I'd say if there was enough moisture in the moly/ws2 in the barrel to have an effect then it's more likely to be condensation, which would effect any barrel.

Barrel warmers is what we need. Heated cleaning rods